Pa deer management plan - Highlights of failure
09-24-2009, 08:13 AM
#22
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 297
09-24-2009, 08:41 AM
#23
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
"I ain't arguing.I'm just curious who works works for either the PGC or DCNR that hasn't admitted it."
What are you waiting for to ask them? You've been on "their side" and a member of that board for quite a few years.
Btw, What is the driving factor for your hatred of USP? Your certainly entitled to your opinion, but the campaign against usp by many of the pgc and environmentalist crew over at hpa is bordering on obsession. Every day for years. Only folks Ive seen that flat out hate them are the ones being sued by them, and their arch-nemisis, the clowns at audubon. Though mysteriously some of those who havent "admitted" to be affiliated with any of the aforementioned groups show absolute contempt, and never give good reasons exactly why. Just some generalizations and half truths, sometimes siting insults word for word from the audubon website. Yet never point to the real reasons. Usp is a roadblock to "the plan".
Im no member of usp and disagree with them on issues. But in the overall scheme of things "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." That certainly fits in this case.
What are you waiting for to ask them? You've been on "their side" and a member of that board for quite a few years.
Btw, What is the driving factor for your hatred of USP? Your certainly entitled to your opinion, but the campaign against usp by many of the pgc and environmentalist crew over at hpa is bordering on obsession. Every day for years. Only folks Ive seen that flat out hate them are the ones being sued by them, and their arch-nemisis, the clowns at audubon. Though mysteriously some of those who havent "admitted" to be affiliated with any of the aforementioned groups show absolute contempt, and never give good reasons exactly why. Just some generalizations and half truths, sometimes siting insults word for word from the audubon website. Yet never point to the real reasons. Usp is a roadblock to "the plan".
Im no member of usp and disagree with them on issues. But in the overall scheme of things "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." That certainly fits in this case.
09-24-2009, 08:58 AM
#24
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
Part of an article From Audubon website, and oldy but a goody:
"Basically, Alt was a sock puppet in an elaborate and sinister plot hatched by Audubon Pennsylvania to eradicate the state's deer, thereby achieving its secret goal of ending all hunting and seizing control of public land, the better to raise dickey birds. Or so goes the mantra of the Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania. The outfit has dozens of mouthpieces, none shriller than game commissioner Stephen Mohr and local outdoor writers Karl Power and Jim Slinsky.
Wrote Power in his January 16, 2005, column in the (Tarentum) Valley News Dispatch : “For me, the proverbial ‘red flag' immediately goes up any time the bird-watching Audubon people get involved in deer management. I once listened, in disgust, to an Audubon representative complain during a game commission meeting about how all of the deer were eating the low bushes where some songbirds build nests. Give me a break!”
Slinsky, who hosts a radio talk show in addition to writing a syndicated column for rural newspapers, and who claims (sans evidence) to be the most widely read outdoor writer in the nation, warns that Audubon has “infiltrated” government across the country, and he reports the following: “Alt's job was to reduce our deer herd to intolerable levels and force the game commission into chaos and financial turmoil. He did his job perfectly. It was never about improving deer hunting. . . . In essence, Alt gambled away his entire career in a political scheme to get promoted. . . . Alt made many, many mistakes in his quest for money and power. . . . Alt's lack of people skills became apparent as he alienated everyone around him. A Napoleon complex began to emerge.”
Mohr told me this: “It wasn't Gary Alt's program. What did Gary Alt know about deer management? Nothing! It was a program put together by the Audubon and a few other folks, and basically Gary Alt was the salesperson. The motive was to revert the land back to what it was in the 1800s, when you saw more species. The environmentalists are sitting back, chuckling at the turmoil we have the hunters in.” When I inquired which environmentalists these might be, he said: “The same folks that are with the United Nations biosphere agenda. They've already established themselves in Kentucky and Arkansas, and they're trying to establish here. When they do, everything's off-limits to humans.” Mohr claims to have it straight from the hunters he represents that deer are at near-record lows. “I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Pennsylvania hunter,” he told me. “He's a killing machine. When the Pennsylvania hunter comes back and tells you the deer aren't there, they're not there.”
Alas, I am thoroughly familiar with the Pennsylvania hunter, having watched him in inaction. More often than not he hunts from a seated position, in a place where he has always hunted, and in habitat that doesn't hold deer because it has been ruined by deer or because the deer that had been there have fled at the first rifle cracks of the new season. "
Audubon & Usp. Just like the mongoose and the snake. Eternal enemies. Pretty clear audubon feels the same about hunters in general as they do usp, just because they know neither in general support the deer slaughter they are pushing. That alone should cause hunters to at the very least see usp as the "lesser evil" even if they dont agree with them on everything usp does & says. I sure as hell aint siding on the issue with pgc and audubon. (or their new friends at hsus as of late) If this whole "battle" could be likened to a back alley brawl, I'll gladly hold usp's jacket while they throw down with the s.o.b's ruining our sport, and when its my turn, will happily hand them mine as well.
"Basically, Alt was a sock puppet in an elaborate and sinister plot hatched by Audubon Pennsylvania to eradicate the state's deer, thereby achieving its secret goal of ending all hunting and seizing control of public land, the better to raise dickey birds. Or so goes the mantra of the Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania. The outfit has dozens of mouthpieces, none shriller than game commissioner Stephen Mohr and local outdoor writers Karl Power and Jim Slinsky.
Wrote Power in his January 16, 2005, column in the (Tarentum) Valley News Dispatch : “For me, the proverbial ‘red flag' immediately goes up any time the bird-watching Audubon people get involved in deer management. I once listened, in disgust, to an Audubon representative complain during a game commission meeting about how all of the deer were eating the low bushes where some songbirds build nests. Give me a break!”
Slinsky, who hosts a radio talk show in addition to writing a syndicated column for rural newspapers, and who claims (sans evidence) to be the most widely read outdoor writer in the nation, warns that Audubon has “infiltrated” government across the country, and he reports the following: “Alt's job was to reduce our deer herd to intolerable levels and force the game commission into chaos and financial turmoil. He did his job perfectly. It was never about improving deer hunting. . . . In essence, Alt gambled away his entire career in a political scheme to get promoted. . . . Alt made many, many mistakes in his quest for money and power. . . . Alt's lack of people skills became apparent as he alienated everyone around him. A Napoleon complex began to emerge.”
Mohr told me this: “It wasn't Gary Alt's program. What did Gary Alt know about deer management? Nothing! It was a program put together by the Audubon and a few other folks, and basically Gary Alt was the salesperson. The motive was to revert the land back to what it was in the 1800s, when you saw more species. The environmentalists are sitting back, chuckling at the turmoil we have the hunters in.” When I inquired which environmentalists these might be, he said: “The same folks that are with the United Nations biosphere agenda. They've already established themselves in Kentucky and Arkansas, and they're trying to establish here. When they do, everything's off-limits to humans.” Mohr claims to have it straight from the hunters he represents that deer are at near-record lows. “I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Pennsylvania hunter,” he told me. “He's a killing machine. When the Pennsylvania hunter comes back and tells you the deer aren't there, they're not there.”
Alas, I am thoroughly familiar with the Pennsylvania hunter, having watched him in inaction. More often than not he hunts from a seated position, in a place where he has always hunted, and in habitat that doesn't hold deer because it has been ruined by deer or because the deer that had been there have fled at the first rifle cracks of the new season. "
Audubon & Usp. Just like the mongoose and the snake. Eternal enemies. Pretty clear audubon feels the same about hunters in general as they do usp, just because they know neither in general support the deer slaughter they are pushing. That alone should cause hunters to at the very least see usp as the "lesser evil" even if they dont agree with them on everything usp does & says. I sure as hell aint siding on the issue with pgc and audubon. (or their new friends at hsus as of late) If this whole "battle" could be likened to a back alley brawl, I'll gladly hold usp's jacket while they throw down with the s.o.b's ruining our sport, and when its my turn, will happily hand them mine as well.
Last edited by Cornelius08; 09-24-2009 at 09:03 AM.
09-24-2009, 09:04 AM
#25
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
I'm lost here. Hunters in general don't support the deer slaughter. Then who is doing the slaughter? Is it the Joe Sixpacks from Pittsburgh or a 100K man strikeforce of special sniper slaughter units from the PGC?
09-24-2009, 09:39 AM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
09-24-2009, 09:41 AM
#27
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
Lanse Hunters arent supportive of the slaughter. But there are 900,000 of us, most of which i think its safe to assume hunt to kill a deer. Isnt that what the ulimte goal is??
Most arent educated highly in deer management, nor should they need to, when they dont get paid to manage the herd. Most just want to kill a deer. Dont see how you can begrudge a man that opportunity when we have a small percentge of gamehogs that kill multiple deer even though the herd is declining and pgc has encouraged it.
On another angle, most people dont support crime, but we have a helluva lot of full prisons, although those criminals dont represent the majority of society, that doesnt mean there arent a high number of them.
If only half of us even attempted to harvest doe at all, and half of those attempted to fill 2 tags, thats still 675,000 tags people were attempting to fill, even though less than 225,000 out of 900,000 were trying to kill more than one deer. And that 225,000 hunters is a higher number than many states have total, and thats just a fraction of ours. Tag management is absolutely crucial by the management agency. And they are blowing it. Big time.
Last i checked pgc was paid to manage the herd. Managing the herd includes allocating antlerless alotment. If WE are to manage the herd, then Im sorry, 900,000 of us are gonna need to hunt for free, and pay us back for our self management of the last several years so we can pay for all the necessities that it will take, unless pgc is willing to walk out and leave the building empty for us at elmerton.
"or a 100K man strikeforce of special sniper slaughter units from the PGC? "
I know that was a joke. But nothing pgc could ever do these days would surprise me. From wholesale slaughter to walking hand & hand to legislative meetings with hsus representatives.... I think we've seen it all.
Most arent educated highly in deer management, nor should they need to, when they dont get paid to manage the herd. Most just want to kill a deer. Dont see how you can begrudge a man that opportunity when we have a small percentge of gamehogs that kill multiple deer even though the herd is declining and pgc has encouraged it.
On another angle, most people dont support crime, but we have a helluva lot of full prisons, although those criminals dont represent the majority of society, that doesnt mean there arent a high number of them.
If only half of us even attempted to harvest doe at all, and half of those attempted to fill 2 tags, thats still 675,000 tags people were attempting to fill, even though less than 225,000 out of 900,000 were trying to kill more than one deer. And that 225,000 hunters is a higher number than many states have total, and thats just a fraction of ours. Tag management is absolutely crucial by the management agency. And they are blowing it. Big time.
Last i checked pgc was paid to manage the herd. Managing the herd includes allocating antlerless alotment. If WE are to manage the herd, then Im sorry, 900,000 of us are gonna need to hunt for free, and pay us back for our self management of the last several years so we can pay for all the necessities that it will take, unless pgc is willing to walk out and leave the building empty for us at elmerton.
"or a 100K man strikeforce of special sniper slaughter units from the PGC? "
I know that was a joke. But nothing pgc could ever do these days would surprise me. From wholesale slaughter to walking hand & hand to legislative meetings with hsus representatives.... I think we've seen it all.
Last edited by Cornelius08; 09-24-2009 at 09:54 AM.
09-24-2009, 09:49 AM
#28
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 2G Gaines Pa
Posts: 524
09-24-2009, 09:50 AM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
"I ain't arguing.I'm just curious who works works for either the PGC or DCNR that hasn't admitted it."
What are you waiting for to ask them? You've been on "their side" and a member of that board for quite a few years.
Btw, What is the driving factor for your hatred of USP? Your certainly entitled to your opinion, but the campaign against usp by many of the pgc and environmentalist crew over at hpa is bordering on obsession. Every day for years. Only folks Ive seen that flat out hate them are the ones being sued by them, and their arch-nemisis, the clowns at audubon. Though mysteriously some of those who havent "admitted" to be affiliated with any of the aforementioned groups show absolute contempt, and never give good reasons exactly why. Just some generalizations and half truths, sometimes siting insults word for word from the audubon website. Yet never point to the real reasons. Usp is a roadblock to "the plan".
Im no member of usp and disagree with them on issues. But in the overall scheme of things "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." That certainly fits in this case.
What are you waiting for to ask them? You've been on "their side" and a member of that board for quite a few years.
Btw, What is the driving factor for your hatred of USP? Your certainly entitled to your opinion, but the campaign against usp by many of the pgc and environmentalist crew over at hpa is bordering on obsession. Every day for years. Only folks Ive seen that flat out hate them are the ones being sued by them, and their arch-nemisis, the clowns at audubon. Though mysteriously some of those who havent "admitted" to be affiliated with any of the aforementioned groups show absolute contempt, and never give good reasons exactly why. Just some generalizations and half truths, sometimes siting insults word for word from the audubon website. Yet never point to the real reasons. Usp is a roadblock to "the plan".
Im no member of usp and disagree with them on issues. But in the overall scheme of things "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." That certainly fits in this case.
I despise the USP because they're the biggest bunch of blow- hard ball babies I've ever seen.They constantly lie and manufacture absolute B.S.Let's see,they filed a lawsuit against the PGC based on the PGC wanting to kill all the deer because the deer were pawing up the trees with their hooves.The were behind and assine Phony hoax where a dellusioned Amish guy was supposedly attacked by 3 ifferent color phased mountain lions.They even set up a legal defense fund for the wacko.Their consultant and spokeperson is always coming up with wild,insane conspriracy theories.For instance,he's tried to claim that someone is raising wolf/coyote hybrids and releasing them in Pa.Even had a special rifle built to hunt them with.Most recently,they aligned themselves with PETA and are asking for donations so they can fight the big bad PGC and keep them from clubbing any more fawns.The USP is un-defendable.they're pure poison and counter production to anyone that considers themselves a sportsman.
09-24-2009, 09:53 AM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
I was hopin to make the Potter county bowfestival last month and get in touch with you but my daughter had a horseshow that weekend.Maybe we can meet around Sinnemahoning the next time I'm up that way.