Revote?? Crossbows In PA
07-05-2009, 07:30 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 139
Revote?? Crossbows In PA
Find it interesting that they are going to propose a two week crossbow season (Oct 3 - Oct 17) instead of a full season. The meeting notes for the upcoming agenda on the PGC website claimthat with the changein board members, the view has changed.What about the people who went out and bought a new $500 crossbow for this upcoming season??I would be furious!!!
On another note, the hunting digest claims that you can't hunt over bait during any hunting seasons. It says that the bait must be removed 30 days before hunting. Does anyone know exactly how far from the bait you need to be if you dont remove it?My neighbor has a deer feeder in his yard andI hunt about 100 yards away on my own property. The digest doesnt specify how far you need to be. I have no problem moving even further away, but if I dont need to move from my hunting spot, I really dont want to. Plus, I only have so much property of my own that I can hunt. I can honestly say that I am not using his feeder to aid my hunt (especially since Iam hunting over an agriculturalcorn field), but I know the game commission can be pretty picky. Any information would be useful.
On another note, the hunting digest claims that you can't hunt over bait during any hunting seasons. It says that the bait must be removed 30 days before hunting. Does anyone know exactly how far from the bait you need to be if you dont remove it?My neighbor has a deer feeder in his yard andI hunt about 100 yards away on my own property. The digest doesnt specify how far you need to be. I have no problem moving even further away, but if I dont need to move from my hunting spot, I really dont want to. Plus, I only have so much property of my own that I can hunt. I can honestly say that I am not using his feeder to aid my hunt (especially since Iam hunting over an agriculturalcorn field), but I know the game commission can be pretty picky. Any information would be useful.
07-06-2009, 04:25 AM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Revote?? Crossbows In PA
The law does not specify a distance. Instead of a distance, it is worded subjectively and intended to allow the WCO to decide if the bait is affecting game movements regardless of the distance.
IMHO, it's a poorly worded law that fails to address situations just like yours.Even worse, A huntercould have an anti hunting neighbor who could effectively make hunting illegal over a very broad area simply by putting out a feeder.
IMHO, it's a poorly worded law that fails to address situations just like yours.Even worse, A huntercould have an anti hunting neighbor who could effectively make hunting illegal over a very broad area simply by putting out a feeder.
07-06-2009, 05:49 AM
#3
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
RE: Revote?? Crossbows In PA
Contact your local WCO and get his/her view on your situation. Every situation is different but I would certainly have an issue with a hunter being within 100 yards of a feeder that they obviously know about.
There is no set distance for a very good reason. One reason is that different wildlife will travel different distances to get to the food source and setting up along any trail going to our from the feed is hunting over bait the same as if they were shooting it while its head was stuck in the feed bucket.
The other reason there is no set distance is that as soon as they set a distance any hunter would be able to shut down huge areas to all other hunters. If you make the distance 100, 200 or in some cases even 300 yards all a person has to do is sight their gun in for that distance and move that far from the bait. Then any hunters that wanted to hunt in the area anywhere around that bait, even though it might be out of sight from them would be illegal.
Allow me to put it this way. Say they make the distance 200 yards. All I would have to do is sight my rifle in for 225 yards head out and figure out where I wanted to strategically place my stand locations. Then I could go out 225 yards and place bait stations in a circular or star pattern around my stand. At that point I have shut down a pretty large area that other hunters can’t legally hunt since they would be illegal to hunt within 200 yards of my bait stations, even from the other side of it. All I would have to do is tell them they are hunting a baited area and they would either have to move to be in violation. I could even expand the area I wanted to shut down to other hunters and have all to myself by going out another hundred yards or so from the first bait circle and placing more bait stations. That way I could shut down even more of my favorite hunting areas to other hunters. I might not ever even hunt some of those baited areas during any given day but I would keep them baited just in case I wanted to hunt there sometime in the future and wanted to know the game was still being held in that area. Meanwhile, anyone that came there to hunt would not be able to hunt the area unless they used my exact stand location and I would probably have it set up so they couldn’t get into the stand.
Now does anyone still think that set distances would be better then what we have now?
The only other thing to do would be to just make baiting legal. Baiting on a large scale, and believe me in this state it would be huge because it is already huge even being illegal, would increase the probability of disease transmission, help concentrate predators to the feeding stations and also greatly increase some wildlife harvests. Some species, such as turkey and bear can be very seriously over harvested with baiting. That then would require much shorter seasons or other limiting type hunting restrictions in order to bring harvests back in line toward sustainable harvests and species populations.
Nope, I think we need to stick with the WCOs and courts using good judgment on whether the hunter knew or should have know they were hunting or taking wildlife through the use of baiting, as we have now with the existing laws. If you have questions and concerns about baiting in your area talk to your WCO about it. They will work with you on it as long as you are above board and trying to be legal instead of just a sneak taking advantage of the wildlife being pulled into a bait station.
R.S. Bodenhorn
07-06-2009, 07:04 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio,mid
Posts: 1,275
RE: Revote?? Crossbows In PA
RSB, your ideas on "baiting' are not a reality. We have 1,000 yard areas set by the GW in our area, now that takes care of the bast_ _d that baited on his ground but also takes care of my ground. You can get no satisfaction.It is a good way to increase tickets to hunters who don't have a clue it is in the area or was even baited?? Worse yet, roll into camp late Friday night and have a GW in your face Staurday morning writing you a ticket! When i watch what you write, I get a chuckle sometimes because it sound logical, but in reality it only opens the door for more tickets and fines for you guys. Then you use those stats against us stating how much your needed because look at the crime stats!! In addition the courts will ALWAYS side w/ the GW. I barely have enough money to get to hunt let alone fight you guys in court. I do agree w/ no bait issue, in MI it was a terrible sight and deer hunting was shoot em' off the pile. But what is bait? My food plots planted especially to entice deer?Salt Blocks?
07-06-2009, 07:13 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio,mid
Posts: 1,275
RE: Revote?? Crossbows In PA
Now to Xbow. I know you all are rejoicing this item of possible change!! But it will not stop there. There is no reason to do this. If ou have purchsed your equi[pment on a ruling from 2 or months ago (can't remember the date it was included as bow hunting ) you are now SOL.But it is ty[pical of the PAPGC to act like htis. You wonder why people are leaving or not entering the sport? Let the dust settle, take care of more important things like deer densities and funding. This Xbow inclusion as an arching opportunity like all new things will pass. This is just nuts. After 30+ pages on DD and they look at this, this is a page right off the Obama night train, give you a taste then say look how great that is and now we raise prices because we listened. Don't get fooled!
07-06-2009, 07:36 AM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Revote?? Crossbows In PA
RSB
First, I think we can agree on few things:
Baiting is a growing problem
Baiting enforcement, by it's nature has to be a real potential headache almost every time, no matter how the law is worded.
Legalizing baiting in PA is not a good idea.
It can also be said that either side can usually find ways to abuse any law.
All that being said, the example you used is kind of out there on the extreme just as it would be extreme for a WCO to cite a guy for shooting a buck 500 yards from a bait where the buck has been seen occasionally.
Could a guy set up like you suggested and abuse the intent of the law? You bet!
Could a WCO (or far more likely, an overzealous deputy) abuse the intent of the law in the example I gave? Again the answer is yes.
I am not saying that I have the perfect solution. I don't. My concern is for the unwitting hunter who finds himself in a situation where he "could have benefited" from the baitwhile having no knowledge of it. IMHO, the law as it stands makes the job of law enforcement easier but at the risk of victimizing an innocent hunter. Perhaps a warning systemwould be a good idea for those that may well beunaware of the bait.
It also provides an opportunity for an anti hunter to "post" property that goes well beyond his own boundaries by simply dumping a bait pile and calling it in.
First, I think we can agree on few things:
Baiting is a growing problem
Baiting enforcement, by it's nature has to be a real potential headache almost every time, no matter how the law is worded.
Legalizing baiting in PA is not a good idea.
It can also be said that either side can usually find ways to abuse any law.
All that being said, the example you used is kind of out there on the extreme just as it would be extreme for a WCO to cite a guy for shooting a buck 500 yards from a bait where the buck has been seen occasionally.
Could a guy set up like you suggested and abuse the intent of the law? You bet!
Could a WCO (or far more likely, an overzealous deputy) abuse the intent of the law in the example I gave? Again the answer is yes.
I am not saying that I have the perfect solution. I don't. My concern is for the unwitting hunter who finds himself in a situation where he "could have benefited" from the baitwhile having no knowledge of it. IMHO, the law as it stands makes the job of law enforcement easier but at the risk of victimizing an innocent hunter. Perhaps a warning systemwould be a good idea for those that may well beunaware of the bait.
It also provides an opportunity for an anti hunter to "post" property that goes well beyond his own boundaries by simply dumping a bait pile and calling it in.
07-06-2009, 04:40 PM
#8
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: manassas va USA
Posts: 614
RE: Revote?? Crossbows In PA
ORIGINAL: R.S.B.
Contact your local WCO and get his/her view on your situation. Every situation is different but I would certainly have an issue with a hunter being within 100 yards of a feeder that they obviously know about.
There is no set distance for a very good reason. One reason is that different wildlife will travel different distances to get to the food source and setting up along any trail going to our from the feed is hunting over bait the same as if they were shooting it while its head was stuck in the feed bucket.
The other reason there is no set distance is that as soon as they set a distance any hunter would be able to shut down huge areas to all other hunters. If you make the distance 100, 200 or in some cases even 300 yards all a person has to do is sight their gun in for that distance and move that far from the bait. Then any hunters that wanted to hunt in the area anywhere around that bait, even though it might be out of sight from them would be illegal.
Allow me to put it this way. Say they make the distance 200 yards. All I would have to do is sight my rifle in for 225 yards head out and figure out where I wanted to strategically place my stand locations. Then I could go out 225 yards and place bait stations in a circular or star pattern around my stand. At that point I have shut down a pretty large area that other hunters can’t legally hunt since they would be illegal to hunt within 200 yards of my bait stations, even from the other side of it. All I would have to do is tell them they are hunting a baited area and they would either have to move to be in violation. I could even expand the area I wanted to shut down to other hunters and have all to myself by going out another hundred yards or so from the first bait circle and placing more bait stations. That way I could shut down even more of my favorite hunting areas to other hunters. I might not ever even hunt some of those baited areas during any given day but I would keep them baited just in case I wanted to hunt there sometime in the future and wanted to know the game was still being held in that area. Meanwhile, anyone that came there to hunt would not be able to hunt the area unless they used my exact stand location and I would probably have it set up so they couldn’t get into the stand.
Now does anyone still think that set distances would be better then what we have now?
The only other thing to do would be to just make baiting legal. Baiting on a large scale, and believe me in this state it would be huge because it is already huge even being illegal, would increase the probability of disease transmission, help concentrate predators to the feeding stations and also greatly increase some wildlife harvests. Some species, such as turkey and bear can be very seriously over harvested with baiting. That then would require much shorter seasons or other limiting type hunting restrictions in order to bring harvests back in line toward sustainable harvests and species populations.
Nope, I think we need to stick with the WCOs and courts using good judgment on whether the hunter knew or should have know they were hunting or taking wildlife through the use of baiting, as we have now with the existing laws. If you have questions and concerns about baiting in your area talk to your WCO about it. They will work with you on it as long as you are above board and trying to be legal instead of just a sneak taking advantage of the wildlife being pulled into a bait station.
R.S. Bodenhorn
Contact your local WCO and get his/her view on your situation. Every situation is different but I would certainly have an issue with a hunter being within 100 yards of a feeder that they obviously know about.
There is no set distance for a very good reason. One reason is that different wildlife will travel different distances to get to the food source and setting up along any trail going to our from the feed is hunting over bait the same as if they were shooting it while its head was stuck in the feed bucket.
The other reason there is no set distance is that as soon as they set a distance any hunter would be able to shut down huge areas to all other hunters. If you make the distance 100, 200 or in some cases even 300 yards all a person has to do is sight their gun in for that distance and move that far from the bait. Then any hunters that wanted to hunt in the area anywhere around that bait, even though it might be out of sight from them would be illegal.
Allow me to put it this way. Say they make the distance 200 yards. All I would have to do is sight my rifle in for 225 yards head out and figure out where I wanted to strategically place my stand locations. Then I could go out 225 yards and place bait stations in a circular or star pattern around my stand. At that point I have shut down a pretty large area that other hunters can’t legally hunt since they would be illegal to hunt within 200 yards of my bait stations, even from the other side of it. All I would have to do is tell them they are hunting a baited area and they would either have to move to be in violation. I could even expand the area I wanted to shut down to other hunters and have all to myself by going out another hundred yards or so from the first bait circle and placing more bait stations. That way I could shut down even more of my favorite hunting areas to other hunters. I might not ever even hunt some of those baited areas during any given day but I would keep them baited just in case I wanted to hunt there sometime in the future and wanted to know the game was still being held in that area. Meanwhile, anyone that came there to hunt would not be able to hunt the area unless they used my exact stand location and I would probably have it set up so they couldn’t get into the stand.
Now does anyone still think that set distances would be better then what we have now?
The only other thing to do would be to just make baiting legal. Baiting on a large scale, and believe me in this state it would be huge because it is already huge even being illegal, would increase the probability of disease transmission, help concentrate predators to the feeding stations and also greatly increase some wildlife harvests. Some species, such as turkey and bear can be very seriously over harvested with baiting. That then would require much shorter seasons or other limiting type hunting restrictions in order to bring harvests back in line toward sustainable harvests and species populations.
Nope, I think we need to stick with the WCOs and courts using good judgment on whether the hunter knew or should have know they were hunting or taking wildlife through the use of baiting, as we have now with the existing laws. If you have questions and concerns about baiting in your area talk to your WCO about it. They will work with you on it as long as you are above board and trying to be legal instead of just a sneak taking advantage of the wildlife being pulled into a bait station.
R.S. Bodenhorn
07-06-2009, 04:54 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: 3c pa
Posts: 1,212
RE: Revote?? Crossbows In PA
ok the new license is out i havent read my book yet . But since it was legal a couple months ago shouldnt it be in the book that xbows are legal. And since they were legal couldnt one use one (without knowing lmao) that they have been re illegalized atleast this year.
07-07-2009, 03:18 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio,mid
Posts: 1,275
RE: Revote?? Crossbows In PA
ok the new license is out i havent read my book yet . But since it was legal a couple months ago shouldnt it be in the book that xbows are legal. And since they were legal couldnt one use one (without knowing lmao) that they have been re illegalized atleast this year.