BTBowhunter

Well documented where?


If you had this anywhere but between your ears, you'd leap at the chance to prove me wrong. But you cant.

As I suspected, you simply made it up.

bluebird2

That may be your opinion .but now let's see you back iy up with some facts. The fact is every private hunting club in PA is a pay to hunt situation. We have farms that are leased for hunting along with timber company land. The only reason we don;t have more pay to hunt land is that the hunting is so poor few are willing to pay for such poor hunting.

BTBowhunter

I know of no stats available on how much land is leased privately in the south and midwest. That statement wasbased on experience in the midwest and in talking to many dozens of hunters from the deep south that also travel to the midwest, but most hunters from the midwest and the south will agree. the deeper south you go, the more prevalent it is.

On the other hand, the facts totally blow away your suggestion that PA would have more leasingif the hunting were better. If what you say were true, PA would have been all leased up well before AR/HR began and when you claim that the hunting WAS better. It's more about a culture difference in the south and more about the fairly recent explosion of interest in the big bucks that have been available for a long time in the midwest

ButchA

Here's an interesting article for you PA guys. This is from Nov 2008....

http://www.outdoorcentral.com/featur...ania-has-begun

Cornelius08

"Not according to the NSSF who has been monitoring those numbers for years. Many states could look that bad when taking a particular time slice."

no... Im looking at the deer program years. They were also the years addressed in the usfw report. According to usfw, the nation declined by 4%. According to Pgc websites license sales figures, the decline HERE was 10% during that same period.

"Overall, PA has been consistently in the middle of the national averages over the years and has actually improved more recently "

INcorrect. you are pointing to ONE YEAR, and only the Resident adult sales. Thats pretty "grasping for anything" if you ask me.

quote:

"Proper context would be to compare PA success rates to a state where deer AND hunters densities are similar, not to states with far lower hunter densities "

Does that not ALL factor in to wether a hunting state is "good" or not?? The topic was worst deer hunting state.... Id imagine all the hunters are a factor, but so is the unnecessarily low deer numbers. In fact the more hunters magnify the problem.
quote:

"The facts say otherwise. The harvests have stabilized and is therefore at a sustainable point. "

They havent. The buck harvests of the last two years are modern day lows.

Cornelius08

"Well documented where?"

Where isnt it?? Where the hell isnt it these days? LOL. Since you are on this site, You apparently have an internet connection. Use it.


"If you had this anywhere but between your ears, you'd leap at the chance to prove me wrong. But you cant.

As I suspected, you simply made it up."

I simply stated what pretty much everyone already knows. Common knowledge. Just as sure as stating 1+1=2 and the sun will rise again in the morning. Anyone living in the state and many who dont are well aware of our situation. We have become the laughing stock of the nation managementwise. You're the one in false denial, prove otherwise.

BTBowhunter

You claim all this stuff is well documented. Where?

Google the words "PA has the "lowest satisfaction rating in the nation"

and the only hit related to hunting is this thread LOL.

It's OK to have an opinion even if it's out in left field but it's not OK to claim an opinion as well documented fact. Doing that makes it a lie.

Cornelius08

People pizzed

Book about pizzed Pennsylvanians

THese dont look too happy either

More P-oed hunters

Writer not happy with deer program, one of many.

Another...

More...


Also an excerpt From Pa deer association, a small group put together to SUPPORT pgc: "During the past few years, the Pennsylvania Game Commission’s Deer Management Program has been under fire by numerous sportsmen from throughout the state. More and more complaints are heard of the serious decline in the deer population in the traditional northern deer ranges.

In recent years, petitions signed by thousands of concerned sportsmen and non-hunters are sent to the P.G.C., the Governor, or various legislators requesting the suspension of antlerless deer seasons in counties such as Potter, Tioga, Clinton, Lycoming and others.

Survey returns from our own members and sportsmen visiting our show displays indicate a serious lack of faith in and growing resentment toward the P.G.C. and it’s Deer Management Programs.




Id post all the comments from hundreds of articles, letters to the editors, and message board threads, but I know you arent an idiot and know the "deal" I also dont want to spend 24/7 for the next decade and a half posting all the "proof" thats available.

Cornelius08

Enuff yet?



...Or do you want more like this??


Should I also point out the several polls from several sites that did not support the extent of herd reduction/pgc policy??


Or maybe articles about "Dr. Alt" LOL, having to wear a bullet proof vest? LOL

Cornelius08

You also have writers in the SW part of the state speaking out against the plan. Outdoor writer Rod Shoener regularly speaks against the very low deer densities, and his views are very middle of the road.

There can never be enough said to really express the level of discontent of many hundreds of thousands.