PA VOTED WORST DEER STATE IN NATION
06-07-2009, 06:47 AM
#141
Boone & Crockett
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Location: Southwest Ohio
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RE: PA VOTED WORST DEER STATE IN NATION
Is there some sort of formula to determine deer harvestthat factors in thenumber of deer, number of hunters, and number of days that can be hunted. I can see both sides of the Georgia versus PA arguments. PA has more hunters but on the other hand, the length of season in Georgia may or may not result in greater number of "man hours" spent in the woods that would correlate to higher harvests. I dunno, it just seems to me that folks on both sides of the argument seem to have their pet formulas forsupporting their positions. Have there been some standard measures developed to rank states nationwide?
06-07-2009, 07:03 AM
#143
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RE: PA VOTED WORST DEER STATE IN NATION
Lans... Having a 5 times better hunter success rate in Georgia can definately be considered better. It doesnt matter about days or number of hunters for the purpose of the main area of my argument. The only thing that matters is this... They are killing more buck in Georgia. with the current herd size in pa you CANNOT kill more deer in Pa and have a higher harvest than currently and have it more than one year. If you were to increase tags or have longer seasons with intent to increase harvest this year, youd have far less deer next year, because if you did the herd would be even lower than it is now and be declining at an even more rapid rate, and harvests would dip even lower in the immediate future. Im not being a smartass, but cannot figure out what is so hard to understand about that?? The doe harvest is already adding to the reduction because of too many tags for too long raping the herd. Killing more legal buck this year would mean fewer surviving and fewer for next season.
As for the buck harvest alone, we were already killing 85-90% of the legal bucks. Not as if we have an untapped surplus that could be utilized if only we had more days either. And it didnt matter if we did that with 900,000 hunters or 100,000 and 6 months to hunt. We are killing the huge majority of our legal bucks and there is no room for reasonable, higher buck harvests if the herd stays the size it is now.
As for the buck harvest alone, we were already killing 85-90% of the legal bucks. Not as if we have an untapped surplus that could be utilized if only we had more days either. And it didnt matter if we did that with 900,000 hunters or 100,000 and 6 months to hunt. We are killing the huge majority of our legal bucks and there is no room for reasonable, higher buck harvests if the herd stays the size it is now.
06-07-2009, 08:54 AM
#144
Boone & Crockett
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Location: Southwest Ohio
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RE: PA VOTED WORST DEER STATE IN NATION
If you aretalking in terms of only considering theabsolute number of bucks harvested as the main factor for evaluating best or worst thenI get your point. Like I said though, other folks might consider factors like accessibility to hunting ground, duration of season, does and buck harvested relative to hunters and hunting days, types of weapons that can be used etc. But for the moment, if we do decide to run withyour assessmentas the formula, then can you demonstrate the PA is the worst state compared to all others in theUnion in this regard?
06-07-2009, 10:51 AM
#145
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RE: PA VOTED WORST DEER STATE IN NATION
Worst or not is definately open to debate, and could be based on many considerations and requires alot of opinion. The fact Pa sucks and badly desparately needs improved upon is much more clearcut. The current situation shows that pretty clearly with deer wars, lawsuits, hunter decline, audits and financial problems.
06-07-2009, 03:12 PM
#146
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hughesville, PA
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RE: PA VOTED WORST DEER STATE IN NATION
As for the buck harvest alone, we were already killing 85-90% of the legal bucks. Not as if we have an untapped surplus that could be utilized if only we had more days either. And it didnt matter if we did that with 900,000 hunters or 100,000 and 6 months to hunt. We are killing the huge majority of our legal bucks and there is no room for reasonable, higher buck harvests if the herd stays the size it is now.
06-07-2009, 04:31 PM
#147
Nontypical Buck
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RE: PA VOTED WORST DEER STATE IN NATION
Buck harvest Data
2.5+ Buck Harvest
Year Total Buck Harvest % 2.5+ 2.5+ Buck
1996--------153,432-------------16.2------------------------24,856
1997--------176,677-------------18.6------------------------32,862
1998--------181,449-------------19.4------------------------35,201
1999--------194,371-------------20.0------------------------38,874
2000--------203,221-------------18.3------------------------37,189
2001--------203,247-------------21.6------------------------43,901
2002--------165,416-------------31.8------------------------52,602
2003--------142,270-------------43.6------------------------62,030
2004--------124,410-------------50.2------------------------62,399
2005--------120,500------------~48%-----------------------57,600
2006-----135,290--------44%----------------59,527
2007-----109,200--------44%----------------48,048
here is the PGC buck harvest data which shows that prior yo ARs we were harvesting around 80% of our 1.5 buck.
2.5+ Buck Harvest
Year Total Buck Harvest % 2.5+ 2.5+ Buck
1996--------153,432-------------16.2------------------------24,856
1997--------176,677-------------18.6------------------------32,862
1998--------181,449-------------19.4------------------------35,201
1999--------194,371-------------20.0------------------------38,874
2000--------203,221-------------18.3------------------------37,189
2001--------203,247-------------21.6------------------------43,901
2002--------165,416-------------31.8------------------------52,602
2003--------142,270-------------43.6------------------------62,030
2004--------124,410-------------50.2------------------------62,399
2005--------120,500------------~48%-----------------------57,600
2006-----135,290--------44%----------------59,527
2007-----109,200--------44%----------------48,048
here is the PGC buck harvest data which shows that prior yo ARs we were harvesting around 80% of our 1.5 buck.
06-07-2009, 04:38 PM
#148
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RE: PA VOTED WORST DEER STATE IN NATION
Ben, thats actually a very good question and not one that I have yet addressed, so would be happy to do so now.
.....I agree bb, and it only stands to reason that 900,000 hunters now hunting for many fewer buck(only those that meet requirements) are gonna harvest as high a percentage or more.
Thats my opinion.
Here are the facts from the pgc website:
"The second piece of crucial data to our study is recorded during the hunting season. We were particularly interested in determining whether or not hunters were indiscriminately shooting bucks without first seeing whether or not they were legal. About 50 percent of the yearlings available at the beginning of the hunting season were alive when the late deer season closed in January. Bucks two years old or older were usually not protected by antler point restriction regulations. As a consequence, only about 20 percent of the older bucks survived the hunting seasons. However, under the previous buck hunting regulations, only about 20 percent of all antlered deer in the state survived the hunting season."
.......................
Sounds like at the very least OVER 80% harvest of legal buck to me. I say very least because it only stands to reason a higher percentage of the legal yearlings would have been taken than the 80% of the 2.5 + age class.
Also remember not ALL of the 2.5 year old or older bucks are legal, yet 80% of ALL of them did not survive hunting season. That means MORE than 80% of the LEGAL bucks were harvested in the study.
Dont know why you find that so hard to believe... Our continued overall lack of quality in our state pretty much tells the tale.
.....I agree bb, and it only stands to reason that 900,000 hunters now hunting for many fewer buck(only those that meet requirements) are gonna harvest as high a percentage or more.
Thats my opinion.
Here are the facts from the pgc website:
"The second piece of crucial data to our study is recorded during the hunting season. We were particularly interested in determining whether or not hunters were indiscriminately shooting bucks without first seeing whether or not they were legal. About 50 percent of the yearlings available at the beginning of the hunting season were alive when the late deer season closed in January. Bucks two years old or older were usually not protected by antler point restriction regulations. As a consequence, only about 20 percent of the older bucks survived the hunting seasons. However, under the previous buck hunting regulations, only about 20 percent of all antlered deer in the state survived the hunting season."
.......................
Sounds like at the very least OVER 80% harvest of legal buck to me. I say very least because it only stands to reason a higher percentage of the legal yearlings would have been taken than the 80% of the 2.5 + age class.
Also remember not ALL of the 2.5 year old or older bucks are legal, yet 80% of ALL of them did not survive hunting season. That means MORE than 80% of the LEGAL bucks were harvested in the study.
Dont know why you find that so hard to believe... Our continued overall lack of quality in our state pretty much tells the tale.
06-07-2009, 07:47 PM
#149
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
RE: PA VOTED WORST DEER STATE IN NATION
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08
Ben, thats actually a very good question and not one that I have yet addressed, so would be happy to do so now.
.....I agree bb, and it only stands to reason that 900,000 hunters now hunting for many fewer buck(only those that meet requirements) are gonna harvest as high a percentage or more.
Thats my opinion.
Here are the facts from the pgc website:
"The second piece of crucial data to our study is recorded during the hunting season. We were particularly interested in determining whether or not hunters were indiscriminately shooting bucks without first seeing whether or not they were legal. About 50 percent of the yearlings available at the beginning of the hunting season were alive when the late deer season closed in January. Bucks two years old or older were usually not protected by antler point restriction regulations. As a consequence, only about 20 percent of the older bucks survived the hunting seasons. However, under the previous buck hunting regulations, only about 20 percent of all antlered deer in the state survived the hunting season."
.......................
Sounds like at the very least OVER 80% harvest of legal buck to me. I say very least because it only stands to reason a higher percentage of the legal yearlings would have been taken than the 80% of the 2.5 + age class.
Also remember not ALL of the 2.5 year old or older bucks are legal, yet 80% of ALL of them did not survive hunting season. That means MORE than 80% of the LEGAL bucks were harvested in the study.
Dont know why you find that so hard to believe... Our continued overall lack of quality in our state pretty much tells the tale.
Ben, thats actually a very good question and not one that I have yet addressed, so would be happy to do so now.
.....I agree bb, and it only stands to reason that 900,000 hunters now hunting for many fewer buck(only those that meet requirements) are gonna harvest as high a percentage or more.
Thats my opinion.
Here are the facts from the pgc website:
"The second piece of crucial data to our study is recorded during the hunting season. We were particularly interested in determining whether or not hunters were indiscriminately shooting bucks without first seeing whether or not they were legal. About 50 percent of the yearlings available at the beginning of the hunting season were alive when the late deer season closed in January. Bucks two years old or older were usually not protected by antler point restriction regulations. As a consequence, only about 20 percent of the older bucks survived the hunting seasons. However, under the previous buck hunting regulations, only about 20 percent of all antlered deer in the state survived the hunting season."
.......................
Sounds like at the very least OVER 80% harvest of legal buck to me. I say very least because it only stands to reason a higher percentage of the legal yearlings would have been taken than the 80% of the 2.5 + age class.
Also remember not ALL of the 2.5 year old or older bucks are legal, yet 80% of ALL of them did not survive hunting season. That means MORE than 80% of the LEGAL bucks were harvested in the study.
Dont know why you find that so hard to believe... Our continued overall lack of quality in our state pretty much tells the tale.
That doesn’t mean that 80 % of the legal bucks are being harvested. You simply have no idea how many of the 1 ½ or the 2 ½ and older bucks that are legal avoid being harvested each year.
In many areas, including this one, it appears that less then half of the legal bucks are being harvested.
R.S. Bodenhorn
06-07-2009, 11:08 PM
#150
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RE: PA VOTED WORST DEER STATE IN NATION
.....And here, probably more than the 80%. One or two small areas where there might be slightly less or other areas slightly more wouldnt be out of the question. I also strongly doubt your area being less than half harvested. Given the extremely low average deer density your buck harvest would be even more absurd in that wmu than it already has become.
The study shows what it shows. And that was that AT LEAST 80+% of the 2.5 year old buck were killed.
Also, previously, before ar, the harvest was estimated at 75-80% buck harvest statewide.
Using all the available data, i think it a very safe conclusion to say that 80-90% of the legal buck are harvested.
The study shows what it shows. And that was that AT LEAST 80+% of the 2.5 year old buck were killed.
Also, previously, before ar, the harvest was estimated at 75-80% buck harvest statewide.
Using all the available data, i think it a very safe conclusion to say that 80-90% of the legal buck are harvested.