Interesting article on Pa Deer Audit
#81
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Interesting article on Pa Deer Audit
I did a search on the PGC website for WMI and found that they were joined at the hip with the PGC and have an obvious conflict of interest. Not only did the PGC give WMI a grant ,but WMI was involved in the process that produced our current deer management plan..
In 1998, with the assistance of the Wildlife Management Institute, the Commission chartered a two-year Pennsylvania Deer Management Working Group to increase communications between the Commission and deer management stakeholders, including sportsmen, farmers and foresters.
#82
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
RE: Interesting article on Pa Deer Audit
ORIGINAL: bluebird2
I did a search on the PGC website for WMI and found that they were joined at the hip with the PGC and have an obvious conflict of interest. Not only did the PGC give WMI a grant ,but WMI was involved in the process that produced our current deer management plan..
I did a search on the PGC website for WMI and found that they were joined at the hip with the PGC and have an obvious conflict of interest. Not only did the PGC give WMI a grant ,but WMI was involved in the process that produced our current deer management plan..
In 1998, with the assistance of the Wildlife Management Institute, the Commission chartered a two-year Pennsylvania Deer Management Working Group to increase communications between the Commission and deer management stakeholders, including sportsmen, farmers and foresters.
The Game Commission was NOT the one that contracted with WMI to do the audit.
The Legislative Budget and Finance Committee researched the qualified independent firms capable of doing such an audit and they then selected the WMI because of their qualifications. The WMI has done contract work for various Legislative Committees in the past and obviously they were satisfied with both their integrity and the final report. Besides having done quality research and reports in this state the WMI has done quality research and reports in many other statesas well as the Federal Government.
Anyone that wants to claim a bias is stepping out on very thin iceand slandering a highly reputable firm.
It appears to me that the most likely reason some people are so desperate to make it appear there is a conflict of interest would focus on the fact that they know darn well the Game Commission deer management program is scientifically sound and that any credible audit will come to that conclusion. Therefore, they are desperately grasping for straws to either discredit the audit and report even before it gets started or have someone do the audit that they can either influence or later discreditwhen theydon't get the report outcome theyare wishing for.
R.S. Bodenhorn
#83
RE: Interesting article on Pa Deer Audit
From the WMI website.....
http://www.wildlifemanagementinstitute.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article& id=21&Itemid=53
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Why are you so worried by an independent agency who specializes in doing exactly what is the stated purpose of the proposed audit.
Instead you want a photographer to do the audit!
http://www.wildlifemanagementinstitute.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article& id=21&Itemid=53
What we do . . .
Toward the goal of improved management of wildlife resources, WMI is involved in a wide range of issue, policy, research and educational efforts. For example, the Wildlife Management Institute:
[ul][*]is the sole private cooperator in the Cooperative Wildlife Research Unit Program at more than 40 land-grant colleges and universities;[*]testifies before House and Senate Committees and Subcommittees on virtually all major wildlife-related legislative matters;[*]produces and publishes authoritative books, informational flyers, booklets and brochures on major wildlife species and related management topics;[*]cooperates with other conservation interests on matters such as endangered species, conservation provisions of the Farm Bill, national wildlife refuge issues, water resources, public land grazing, forest management, appropriations, etc.;[*]conducts in-depth reviews of state, federal and provincial wildlife agencies' organizations, authorities and programs; [*]sponsors and administers the North American Wildlife and Natural Resources Conference-the premiere annual gathering of natural resource scientists, managers, administrators and educators;[*]chairs or coordinates the Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) Alliance, the Hunting Heritage Program, the National Cooperators’ Coalition of the Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Research Units, the Conservation Leaders for Tomorrow (CLfT) Program, and the Bobwhite Conservation Initiative[*]produces the monthly on-line Outdoor News Bulletin[*]and much more.
Toward the goal of improved management of wildlife resources, WMI is involved in a wide range of issue, policy, research and educational efforts. For example, the Wildlife Management Institute:
[ul][*]is the sole private cooperator in the Cooperative Wildlife Research Unit Program at more than 40 land-grant colleges and universities;[*]testifies before House and Senate Committees and Subcommittees on virtually all major wildlife-related legislative matters;[*]produces and publishes authoritative books, informational flyers, booklets and brochures on major wildlife species and related management topics;[*]cooperates with other conservation interests on matters such as endangered species, conservation provisions of the Farm Bill, national wildlife refuge issues, water resources, public land grazing, forest management, appropriations, etc.;[*]conducts in-depth reviews of state, federal and provincial wildlife agencies' organizations, authorities and programs; [*]sponsors and administers the North American Wildlife and Natural Resources Conference-the premiere annual gathering of natural resource scientists, managers, administrators and educators;[*]chairs or coordinates the Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) Alliance, the Hunting Heritage Program, the National Cooperators’ Coalition of the Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Research Units, the Conservation Leaders for Tomorrow (CLfT) Program, and the Bobwhite Conservation Initiative[*]produces the monthly on-line Outdoor News Bulletin[*]and much more.
Why are you so worried by an independent agency who specializes in doing exactly what is the stated purpose of the proposed audit.
Instead you want a photographer to do the audit!
#84
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Interesting article on Pa Deer Audit
Anyone that wants to claim a bias is stepping out on very thin ice and slandering a highly reputable firm.
t appears to me that the most likely reason some people are so desperate to make it appear there is a conflict of interest would focus on the fact that they know darn well the Game Commission deer management program is scientifically sound and that any credible audit will come to that conclusion
#85
RE: Interesting article on Pa Deer Audit
The PGC can't even answer 3 simple questions about their plan raised by just an average hunter, so there is no reason to expect that a truly independent audit would conclude the plan was scientifically sound when the PGC doesn't even know how many deer we have or how many have to be harvested to reach their goals.
We shouldn't be surprised......
You also dismiss theresearch and conclusions of several of the most respected wildlife professionals.
You dismiss the overwhelming evidence that the average PA buck has improved in age structure and as a result antler size and continue to cling to your unsupported high grading theory.
You dismiss the overwhelming evidence of overbrowsing that took place throughout the state before HR and ignore the fact that the regeneration taking place was often restricted to less desirable and less beneficial species.
You dismiss facts presented to you by people with long term experience and knowledge about WMU's that you've seldom if ever set foot in and have the audacity to tell them what things are like where they hunt live and work.
I think RSB hit it dead on when he said you're either afraid of what a truly independent audit will bring or know what it will bring and therefore want to promote an auditor that you can later try to discredit when the inevitable results come.
#86
RE: Interesting article on Pa Deer Audit
BUT......honest and reputable sure I'm not questioning that,but how can they be in a position to do an audit of a program they helped create? Would we let Donald Trump audit his own corporations? Do you really think that they would come out and say that the program theywere consulted to helplaunch beginning in 1998 was anything but scientifically sound? That would not be good for future business, now would it? So much for neutrality. They just are not neutral enough imo, due to their past involvement when PGC was laying the groundwork for this deer program. I want the audit...and I want it done impartially. And not by someone it seems is already being discredited due to his photography career and outdated resume, either. Isn't there anyone else in the word qualified and willing to do the audit?
#87
RE: Interesting article on Pa Deer Audit
I got to agree with Screamin Steel ! If there is any past connection between the PGC and the WMI, I think it should disqualify them from any involvement in the audit if just to eliminate the possibility of being accused of impropriety.
#88
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Interesting article on Pa Deer Audit
Wrong again. every question you've asked has been answered logically but you simply dismiss the answers.
You dismiss the overwhelming evidence of overbrowsing that took place throughout the state before HR and ignore the fact that the regeneration taking place was often restricted to less desirable and less beneficial species.
I never said over browsing was not a problem and you know it, but you can't win a debate unless you mis-represent what i said. What I have said consistently is our herd is being managed based on the regeneration of commercially valuable trees and not on the carrying capacity of the habitat.
I think RSB hit it dead on when he said you're either afraid of what a truly independent audit will bring or know what it will bring and therefore want to promote an auditor that you can later try to discredit when the inevitable results come.
I am not promoting anyone to do the audit and I don't know enough about Evlands association with the PGC to know if he has a similar bias. In fact, I am not sure there is any biologist that has experience in deer management could do an unbiased audit since they would all agree with the basic principle that the herd should be managed in balance with the habitat. But then, the question is which RDD do they believe is the proper RDD.
#89
RE: Interesting article on Pa Deer Audit
In fact, I am not sure there is any biologist that has experience in deer management could do an unbiased audit since they would all agree with the basic principle that the herd should be managed in balance with the habitat.
Priceless!
#90
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Interesting article on Pa Deer Audit
It is only priceless to a biased PGC supporter. Researchers reveal their bias over and over again in how they interpret the results of their research and Kroll is a prime example. Instead of investigating why some bucks develop slower than others he concluded there is no difference between the average 1.5 spike and the average 1.5 Y ,at 4.5 years. That is the same as claiming there are no inferior buck and that is simply not true.