Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
02-06-2009, 04:25 PM
#206
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
ORIGINAL: bluebird2
You poor clowns are about 10 ft. lower than whale poop.
You poor clowns are about 10 ft. lower than whale poop.
02-06-2009, 04:39 PM
#207
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
ORIGINAL: bluebird2
The data on the link was presented as the actual harvest from 2002 to 2006. You converted the data to deer harvested PSM using the five year average which was intentionally misleading and deceiving.
There was absolutely nothing at all deceptive about the data I presented. The harvest data for the various states all came from this web site.
There was nothing misleading about the data. It was all done exactly the same way for each state so that isn’t in any manner misleading even though you don’t like the result of using any averages. You seem to prefer cherry picking individual years where all you are measuring is some form of bias and then comparing that to your other biased cherry pickings. Five year averages actually remove much of the bias of both high and low years and provide a more realistic picture of what typically happens. But I most certainly can and will provide the ranking of the top deer harvests states in the nation by individual year if that is what you want.
As I already pointed out Pennsylvania has always been one of the leading deer harvest states in the nation and remains so yet today. That is why Pennsylvania still also leads the nation in the number of hunters and license sales. Before I post the deer harvest rankings by year I am going to post the number of hunters for the leading states in hunters per square mile of land mass.
Hunters or licenses sold per square mile of land mass:
Ranking…………….State…………………. # of license/sq. mile
1.……………………Penna………………⠀¦â€¦20.8
2.……………………Maryland……………⠀¦..13.6
3.……………………Michigan……………⠀¦..12.7
4.……………………Wisconsin…………… ….11.9
5.……………………Ohio………………†¦â€¦..11.4
6.……………………New York……………….10.4
7.……………………New Jersey……………….9.7
8.……………………Delaware……………⠀¦â€¦9.7
9.……………………Virginia……………⠀¦â€¦..8.9
10.………………….W. Virginia……………….8.1
Now for the deer harvest rankings by year.
2002
Rank………State………………….Deer harvest/sq. mile
1.………….Penna……………………..11.5
2.………….W.Virginia………………..10.6
3.………….Maryland………………….9.4
4.………….N. Jersey…………………..8.5
5.………….Michigan………………….8.3
6.………….Wisconsin…………………6.8
7.………….New York…………………6.5
8.………….Virginia……………………5.4
9.………….Delaware…………………..5.3
10.…………Ohio……………………….5.0
2003
1.………….Penna……………………..10.4
2.………….New Jersey………………..9.4
3.………….Wisconsin…………………8.9
4.………….Maryland………………….8.7
5.………….Michigan………………….8.7
6.………….W. Virginia……………….8.6
7.………….Delaware………………….6.0
8.………….Virginia……………………6.0
9.………….New York…………………5.4
10.…………Ohio………………………4.8
2004
1.………….Wisconsin…………………9.5
2.………….Maryland………………….9.4
3.………….Penna……………………..9.1
4.………….New Jersey……………….7.9
5.………….Michigan………………….7.9
6.………….Delaware………………….7.5
7.………….W.Virginia………………..7.4
8.………….Virginia……………………5.6
9.………….Ohio……………………….5.3
10.…………New York…………………4.4
2005
1.………….Maryland………………….9.5
2.………….Wisconsin…………………8.6
3.………….New Jersey………………..8.0
4.………….Penna……………………..7.9
5.………….Michigan………………….7.3
6.………….Delaware………………….7.0
7.………….W.Virginia………………..5.6
8.………….Virginia……………………5.4
9.………….Ohio………………………5.1
10.…………Missouri………………….4.2
2006
1.………….Wisconsin…………………9.3
2.………….Maryland………………….9.2
3.………….Penna……………………..8.1
4.………….Michigan………………….7.9
5.………….New Jersey………………..7.6
6.………….Delaware………………….7.3
7.………….Ohio………………………5.8
8.………….W.Virginia………………..5.7
9.………….Virginia…………………..5.6
10.…………Missouri………………….4.7
If I could find the 2007 harvest data for the other states I would gladly include that year too but so far I haven’t been able to find the 2007 data for those other states. I do know that the Pennsylvania deer harvest in 2007 was 7.2 deer per square mile. As you can see that is still higher then the average harvest for most states that make up the top ten deer harvest states in the nation. For the data available Pennsylvania has never been lower then number four in the nation. That still places it as one of the best. If not the best deer hunting state in the nation, at least for those that actually hunt instead of just snot around about not having enough deer.
Now think where the Pennsylvania deer harvests would be ranking in that nationwide high harvest category if we were still allowing hunters to shot those young bucks that are now protected with antler restrictions. As far as I know none of those states that ranked higher then Pennsylvania the past few years have antler restrictions. If they had antler restrictions comparable to those in Pennsylvania I bet Pennsylvania would still be the number one harvest state in the nation. Some of you might not think that is of any significance but I think it is very significant.
A few of you have brought up the higher number of hunters in Pennsylvania and that is certainly true. That higher population of people, including hunters, is also part of the reason we simply can’t support more deer. Every time someone clears the forest away to build a new house, a shopping mall or highway we crowd all of the remaining wildlife onto a smaller area. Every time that happens you nearly have to keep fewer deer from that point on. That is simply how the limits of space affect all wildlife populations.
So what is the answer for those of you that want to play the more or too many hunters in Pennsylvania song? Should we tell people they can only get buck license every other year, or perhaps hold a lottery for the license? I don’t think so, I think we all just learn to adapt and accept the fact that not every hunter is supposed to get a deer every year. They never were.
Here are a few other statistics for you concerning buck harvest history and the buck hunter success rates.
Years……………………….percent of hunters harvesting an antlered deer
1985-1987.…………………………….......15 %
1995-1997.…………………………….......18 %
2005-2007.…………………………….......16 %
The fact is even the buck hunter success rates haven’t made the serious decline some people want you to think they have.
The other fact, based on the hunter harvests across this nation, is that Pennsylvania is and always has been one of the best deer hunting and harvest states in this nation. If people are convinced that the hunting is better somewhere else then by all means hunt in the state you desire. No one twists any one’s arm to hunt where they don’t want to hunt, it is each hunters choice where they are going to hunt. I choose to hunt here in Pennsylvania because I know darn well it is great deer hunting for anyone that really likes to hunt.
R.S. Bodenhorn
02-06-2009, 04:40 PM
#208
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Well, we havent sunk all the way down toaccusing someone of plagarism ( acrime by the way) without any basis in fact whatsoever.
ORIGINAL: bluebird2
You poor clowns are about 10 ft. lower than whale poop.
You poor clowns are about 10 ft. lower than whale poop.
02-06-2009, 04:55 PM
#209
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
ORIGINAL: bluebird2
You are correct. you are even lower than that since you have repeatedly accused me of lying without providing one iota of proof that i lied about anything. on the other hand I proved Alt lied, RSB lied and the PGC lied. put up or shut up.
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Well, we havent sunk all the way down toaccusing someone of plagarism ( acrime by the way) without any basis in fact whatsoever.
ORIGINAL: bluebird2
You poor clowns are about 10 ft. lower than whale poop.
You poor clowns are about 10 ft. lower than whale poop.
You have done nothing more then prove that you either don’t know the difference between a lie, facts with supporting data, or that you are really the liar just for saying the others lied. Predictions that don’t come true are not lies either, they are simply cases of changing events that altered the expected and normal outcome even if you are logical or honest enough to understand or acknowledge the differences.
Actually the truth being told you are the one that comes the closest to lies with your misrepresentations of reports, data and even comments made by others.
R.S. Bodenhorn
02-06-2009, 05:26 PM
#210
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 169
RE: Pennsylvania hunters about to be "HOSED"
ORIGINAL: R.S.B.
There was nothing misleading about the data. It was all done exactly the same way for each state so that isn’t in any manner misleading even though you don’t like the result of using any averages. You seem to prefer cherry picking individual years where all you are measuring is some form of bias and then comparing that to your other biased cherry pickings. Five year averages actually remove much of the bias of both high and low years and provide a more realistic picture of what typically happens. But I most certainly can and will provide the ranking of the top deer harvests states in the nation by individual year if that is what you want.
As I already pointed out Pennsylvania has always been one of the leading deer harvest states in the nation and remains so yet today. That is why Pennsylvania still also leads the nation in the number of hunters and license sales. Before I post the deer harvest rankings by year I am going to post the number of hunters for the leading states in hunters per square mile of land mass.
Hunters or licenses sold per square mile of land mass:
Ranking…………….State…………………. # of license/sq. mile
1.……………………Penna………………⠀¦â€¦20.8
2.……………………Maryland……………⠀¦..13.6
3.……………………Michigan……………⠀¦..12.7
4.……………………Wisconsin…………… ….11.9
5.……………………Ohio………………†¦â€¦..11.4
6.……………………New York……………….10.4
7.……………………New Jersey……………….9.7
8.……………………Delaware……………⠀¦â€¦9.7
9.……………………Virginia……………⠀¦â€¦..8.9
10.………………….W. Virginia……………….8.1
Now for the deer harvest rankings by year.
2002
Rank………State………………….Deer harvest/sq. mile
1.………….Penna……………………..11.5
2.………….W.Virginia………………..10.6
3.………….Maryland………………….9.4
4.………….N. Jersey…………………..8.5
5.………….Michigan………………….8.3
6.………….Wisconsin…………………6.8
7.………….New York…………………6.5
8.………….Virginia……………………5.4
9.………….Delaware…………………..5.3
10.…………Ohio……………………….5.0
2003
1.………….Penna……………………..10.4
2.………….New Jersey………………..9.4
3.………….Wisconsin…………………8.9
4.………….Maryland………………….8.7
5.………….Michigan………………….8.7
6.………….W. Virginia……………….8.6
7.………….Delaware………………….6.0
8.………….Virginia……………………6.0
9.………….New York…………………5.4
10.…………Ohio………………………4.8
2004
1.………….Wisconsin…………………9.5
2.………….Maryland………………….9.4
3.………….Penna……………………..9.1
4.………….New Jersey……………….7.9
5.………….Michigan………………….7.9
6.………….Delaware………………….7.5
7.………….W.Virginia………………..7.4
8.………….Virginia……………………5.6
9.………….Ohio……………………….5.3
10.…………New York…………………4.4
2005
1.………….Maryland………………….9.5
2.………….Wisconsin…………………8.6
3.………….New Jersey………………..8.0
4.………….Penna……………………..7.9
5.………….Michigan………………….7.3
6.………….Delaware………………….7.0
7.………….W.Virginia………………..5.6
8.………….Virginia……………………5.4
9.………….Ohio………………………5.1
10.…………Missouri………………….4.2
2006
1.………….Wisconsin…………………9.3
2.………….Maryland………………….9.2
3.………….Penna……………………..8.1
4.………….Michigan………………….7.9
5.………….New Jersey………………..7.6
6.………….Delaware………………….7.3
7.………….Ohio………………………5.8
8.………….W.Virginia………………..5.7
9.………….Virginia…………………..5.6
10.…………Missouri………………….4.7
If I could find the 2007 harvest data for the other states I would gladly include that year too but so far I haven’t been able to find the 2007 data for those other states. I do know that the Pennsylvania deer harvest in 2007 was 7.2 deer per square mile. As you can see that is still higher then the average harvest for most states that make up the top ten deer harvest states in the nation. For the data available Pennsylvania has never been lower then number four in the nation. That still places it as one of the best. If not the best deer hunting state in the nation, at least for those that actually hunt instead of just snot around about not having enough deer.
Now think where the Pennsylvania deer harvests would be ranking in that nationwide high harvest category if we were still allowing hunters to shot those young bucks that are now protected with antler restrictions. As far as I know none of those states that ranked higher then Pennsylvania the past few years have antler restrictions. If they had antler restrictions comparable to those in Pennsylvania I bet Pennsylvania would still be the number one harvest state in the nation. Some of you might not think that is of any significance but I think it is very significant.
A few of you have brought up the higher number of hunters in Pennsylvania and that is certainly true. That higher population of people, including hunters, is also part of the reason we simply can’t support more deer. Every time someone clears the forest away to build a new house, a shopping mall or highway we crowd all of the remaining wildlife onto a smaller area. Every time that happens you nearly have to keep fewer deer from that point on. That is simply how the limits of space affect all wildlife populations.
So what is the answer for those of you that want to play the more or too many hunters in Pennsylvania song? Should we tell people they can only get buck license every other year, or perhaps hold a lottery for the license? I don’t think so, I think we all just learn to adapt and accept the fact that not every hunter is supposed to get a deer every year. They never were.
Here are a few other statistics for you concerning buck harvest history and the buck hunter success rates.
Years……………………….percent of hunters harvesting an antlered deer
1985-1987.…………………………….......15 %
1995-1997.…………………………….......18 %
2005-2007.…………………………….......16 %
The fact is even the buck hunter success rates haven’t made the serious decline some people want you to think they have.
The other fact, based on the hunter harvests across this nation, is that Pennsylvania is and always has been one of the best deer hunting and harvest states in this nation. If people are convinced that the hunting is better somewhere else then by all means hunt in the state you desire. No one twists any one’s arm to hunt where they don’t want to hunt, it is each hunters choice where they are going to hunt. I choose to hunt here in Pennsylvania because I know darn well it is great deer hunting for anyone that really likes to hunt.
R.S. Bodenhorn
ORIGINAL: bluebird2
The data on the link was presented as the actual harvest from 2002 to 2006. You converted the data to deer harvested PSM using the five year average which was intentionally misleading and deceiving.
There was absolutely nothing at all deceptive about the data I presented. The harvest data for the various states all came from this web site.
There was nothing misleading about the data. It was all done exactly the same way for each state so that isn’t in any manner misleading even though you don’t like the result of using any averages. You seem to prefer cherry picking individual years where all you are measuring is some form of bias and then comparing that to your other biased cherry pickings. Five year averages actually remove much of the bias of both high and low years and provide a more realistic picture of what typically happens. But I most certainly can and will provide the ranking of the top deer harvests states in the nation by individual year if that is what you want.
As I already pointed out Pennsylvania has always been one of the leading deer harvest states in the nation and remains so yet today. That is why Pennsylvania still also leads the nation in the number of hunters and license sales. Before I post the deer harvest rankings by year I am going to post the number of hunters for the leading states in hunters per square mile of land mass.
Hunters or licenses sold per square mile of land mass:
Ranking…………….State…………………. # of license/sq. mile
1.……………………Penna………………⠀¦â€¦20.8
2.……………………Maryland……………⠀¦..13.6
3.……………………Michigan……………⠀¦..12.7
4.……………………Wisconsin…………… ….11.9
5.……………………Ohio………………†¦â€¦..11.4
6.……………………New York……………….10.4
7.……………………New Jersey……………….9.7
8.……………………Delaware……………⠀¦â€¦9.7
9.……………………Virginia……………⠀¦â€¦..8.9
10.………………….W. Virginia……………….8.1
Now for the deer harvest rankings by year.
2002
Rank………State………………….Deer harvest/sq. mile
1.………….Penna……………………..11.5
2.………….W.Virginia………………..10.6
3.………….Maryland………………….9.4
4.………….N. Jersey…………………..8.5
5.………….Michigan………………….8.3
6.………….Wisconsin…………………6.8
7.………….New York…………………6.5
8.………….Virginia……………………5.4
9.………….Delaware…………………..5.3
10.…………Ohio……………………….5.0
2003
1.………….Penna……………………..10.4
2.………….New Jersey………………..9.4
3.………….Wisconsin…………………8.9
4.………….Maryland………………….8.7
5.………….Michigan………………….8.7
6.………….W. Virginia……………….8.6
7.………….Delaware………………….6.0
8.………….Virginia……………………6.0
9.………….New York…………………5.4
10.…………Ohio………………………4.8
2004
1.………….Wisconsin…………………9.5
2.………….Maryland………………….9.4
3.………….Penna……………………..9.1
4.………….New Jersey……………….7.9
5.………….Michigan………………….7.9
6.………….Delaware………………….7.5
7.………….W.Virginia………………..7.4
8.………….Virginia……………………5.6
9.………….Ohio……………………….5.3
10.…………New York…………………4.4
2005
1.………….Maryland………………….9.5
2.………….Wisconsin…………………8.6
3.………….New Jersey………………..8.0
4.………….Penna……………………..7.9
5.………….Michigan………………….7.3
6.………….Delaware………………….7.0
7.………….W.Virginia………………..5.6
8.………….Virginia……………………5.4
9.………….Ohio………………………5.1
10.…………Missouri………………….4.2
2006
1.………….Wisconsin…………………9.3
2.………….Maryland………………….9.2
3.………….Penna……………………..8.1
4.………….Michigan………………….7.9
5.………….New Jersey………………..7.6
6.………….Delaware………………….7.3
7.………….Ohio………………………5.8
8.………….W.Virginia………………..5.7
9.………….Virginia…………………..5.6
10.…………Missouri………………….4.7
If I could find the 2007 harvest data for the other states I would gladly include that year too but so far I haven’t been able to find the 2007 data for those other states. I do know that the Pennsylvania deer harvest in 2007 was 7.2 deer per square mile. As you can see that is still higher then the average harvest for most states that make up the top ten deer harvest states in the nation. For the data available Pennsylvania has never been lower then number four in the nation. That still places it as one of the best. If not the best deer hunting state in the nation, at least for those that actually hunt instead of just snot around about not having enough deer.
Now think where the Pennsylvania deer harvests would be ranking in that nationwide high harvest category if we were still allowing hunters to shot those young bucks that are now protected with antler restrictions. As far as I know none of those states that ranked higher then Pennsylvania the past few years have antler restrictions. If they had antler restrictions comparable to those in Pennsylvania I bet Pennsylvania would still be the number one harvest state in the nation. Some of you might not think that is of any significance but I think it is very significant.
A few of you have brought up the higher number of hunters in Pennsylvania and that is certainly true. That higher population of people, including hunters, is also part of the reason we simply can’t support more deer. Every time someone clears the forest away to build a new house, a shopping mall or highway we crowd all of the remaining wildlife onto a smaller area. Every time that happens you nearly have to keep fewer deer from that point on. That is simply how the limits of space affect all wildlife populations.
So what is the answer for those of you that want to play the more or too many hunters in Pennsylvania song? Should we tell people they can only get buck license every other year, or perhaps hold a lottery for the license? I don’t think so, I think we all just learn to adapt and accept the fact that not every hunter is supposed to get a deer every year. They never were.
Here are a few other statistics for you concerning buck harvest history and the buck hunter success rates.
Years……………………….percent of hunters harvesting an antlered deer
1985-1987.…………………………….......15 %
1995-1997.…………………………….......18 %
2005-2007.…………………………….......16 %
The fact is even the buck hunter success rates haven’t made the serious decline some people want you to think they have.
The other fact, based on the hunter harvests across this nation, is that Pennsylvania is and always has been one of the best deer hunting and harvest states in this nation. If people are convinced that the hunting is better somewhere else then by all means hunt in the state you desire. No one twists any one’s arm to hunt where they don’t want to hunt, it is each hunters choice where they are going to hunt. I choose to hunt here in Pennsylvania because I know darn well it is great deer hunting for anyone that really likes to hunt.
R.S. Bodenhorn
Under 380k in deer harvested from over 1.75 million deer tags? Can't wait to see this years harvest numbers. Yep PA is number one. The worst state to hunt for deer. Why,
Only an idiot couldn't figure it out. I will help you.
1,800,000 tags - 380,000 deer= 1.42 million tags went unused in the state of PA. What is that,Like 27% chance of filling your tag? Ny has better with 44%+ chance and all the other states you are looking at have a very strong 50%+ of doing so.