Predators and deer
01-19-2009, 07:00 PM
#11
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 169
RE: Predators and deer
ORIGINAL: sproulman
biggest predator is hunter with a pocket full of doe tags/dmap tags and a new floor model freezer.
ORIGINAL: R.S.B.
I think you could benefit by becoming more aware of the real relationships between predator and prey.
Prey control the predator populations just as much as the other way around. Both are a benefit to the other. It might even be that the increase in predators is helping the deer learn to better avoid being a hunter harvest or even being seen by hunters?
Here is a link to get you started.
http://biology.about.com/od/ecology/a/defensemechan.htm
R.S. Bodenhorn
I think you could benefit by becoming more aware of the real relationships between predator and prey.
Prey control the predator populations just as much as the other way around. Both are a benefit to the other. It might even be that the increase in predators is helping the deer learn to better avoid being a hunter harvest or even being seen by hunters?
Here is a link to get you started.
http://biology.about.com/od/ecology/a/defensemechan.htm
R.S. Bodenhorn
01-20-2009, 05:22 AM
#13
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 366
RE: Predators and deer
I think you could benefit by becoming more aware of the real relationships between predator and prey.
Prey control the predator populations just as much as the other way around. Both are a benefit to the other. It might even be that the increase in predators is helping the deer learn to better avoid being a hunter harvest or even being seen by hunters?
Prey control the predator populations just as much as the other way around. Both are a benefit to the other. It might even be that the increase in predators is helping the deer learn to better avoid being a hunter harvest or even being seen by hunters?
01-20-2009, 06:22 AM
#14
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
RE: Predators and deer
ORIGINAL: mlo31351270
I agree. Man by far is more distructive than any coyote. We have alot of coyotes here in NY. For years hunters have been saying that coyotes are killing all of the deer. Hunters are still killing multible deer each season and does still have fawns at their side. They sure are blind!! The one and onlybiggest threat to our deer herd is over browsing of winter feed.
I think you could benefit by becoming more aware of the real relationships between predator and prey.
Prey control the predator populations just as much as the other way around. Both are a benefit to the other. It might even be that the increase in predators is helping the deer learn to better avoid being a hunter harvest or even being seen by hunters?
Prey control the predator populations just as much as the other way around. Both are a benefit to the other. It might even be that the increase in predators is helping the deer learn to better avoid being a hunter harvest or even being seen by hunters?
Halleluiah, there is at least one person on this board that knows what the real problem is.
The biggest threat to the deer herd is the deer herd getting to large for their food supply. It has been the hunter that allowed that to happen in too many areas. The reason we have so many deer predators today is because man failed to control the deer populations so predators have increased to accomplish what man has failed or simply refused to do.
The sad part is that when we allow nature to control populations those populations nearly always stabilize at low levels instead of high or even mid range population levels. If hunters were just smart enough to allow the professionals to do their jobs instead of undermining everything they do we could have and would have more deer in most areas then we have today.
I also highly suspect the interference from hunters is going to result in even fewer deer for the future.
R.S. Bodenhorn
01-20-2009, 06:35 AM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Predators and deer
ORIGINAL: NY Bowhunter
Don't forget about mountain lions. They could be the biggest threat of all.
Don't forget about mountain lions. They could be the biggest threat of all.
01-20-2009, 06:43 AM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Predators and deer
ORIGINAL: mlo31351270
I agree. Man by far is more distructive than any coyote. We have alot of coyotes here in NY. For years hunters have been saying that coyotes are killing all of the deer. Hunters are still killing multible deer each season and does still have fawns at their side. They sure are blind!! The one and onlybiggest threat to our deer herd is over browsing of winter feed.
I think you could benefit by becoming more aware of the real relationships between predator and prey.
Prey control the predator populations just as much as the other way around. Both are a benefit to the other. It might even be that the increase in predators is helping the deer learn to better avoid being a hunter harvest or even being seen by hunters?
Prey control the predator populations just as much as the other way around. Both are a benefit to the other. It might even be that the increase in predators is helping the deer learn to better avoid being a hunter harvest or even being seen by hunters?
IF THE COYOTES/BEARS KILL WHAT FAWNS MAKE IT.
if the DCNR does not want deer, only trees.
IF HUNTERS KEEP KILLING OFF WHAT DOE ARE LEFT IN WMU2G.
how will deer numbers ever increase to dpsm that is normal,i think i read 9/10 is normal but we have maybe 3 dpsm now in much of clinton county.
THEN HOW ARE DEER NUMBERS TO INCREASE
01-20-2009, 06:44 AM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 9,085
RE: Predators and deer
without the prey, the predators will not be there and the habitat will not support the population size of the predators...plain and simple.
deer hunters hunt where deer are because they want to kill a deer...same with the predators...they live and roam and hunt where they can find their food....
just like they did out west years ago killing all the wolves and such thinking it would make "hunters paradise" the deer population exploded and crashed due to starvation and disease....mother nature will take care of her own if humans do not help in forms noone wants to see like starvation and disease.
the predators just keep the populations in check....they arent going to whipe out anything because if/when they do, they also whipe their own food source out...they arent dumb.......and predators prey on alot more than just deer! deer are large, fast animals. predators only take the weak/sick deer for the most part...as well as some fawns...why chase a deer around for hours and burn tons of energy when you can hunt mice or chipmunks or rabbits or birds etc etc etc that are much easier to come by than a deer that can run as fast or faster than the hunter.....
deer hunters hunt where deer are because they want to kill a deer...same with the predators...they live and roam and hunt where they can find their food....
just like they did out west years ago killing all the wolves and such thinking it would make "hunters paradise" the deer population exploded and crashed due to starvation and disease....mother nature will take care of her own if humans do not help in forms noone wants to see like starvation and disease.
the predators just keep the populations in check....they arent going to whipe out anything because if/when they do, they also whipe their own food source out...they arent dumb.......and predators prey on alot more than just deer! deer are large, fast animals. predators only take the weak/sick deer for the most part...as well as some fawns...why chase a deer around for hours and burn tons of energy when you can hunt mice or chipmunks or rabbits or birds etc etc etc that are much easier to come by than a deer that can run as fast or faster than the hunter.....
01-20-2009, 06:52 AM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Predators and deer
ORIGINAL: mauser06
without the prey, the predators will not be there and the habitat will not support the population size of the predators...plain and simple.
deer hunters hunt where deer are because they want to kill a deer...same with the predators...they live and roam and hunt where they can find their food....
just like they did out west years ago killing all the wolves and such thinking it would make "hunters paradise" the deer population exploded and crashed due to starvation and disease....mother nature will take care of her own if humans do not help in forms noone wants to see like starvation and disease.
the predators just keep the populations in check....they arent going to whipe out anything because if/when they do, they also whipe their own food source out...they arent dumb.......and predators prey on alot more than just deer! deer are large, fast animals. predators only take the weak/sick deer for the most part...as well as some fawns...why chase a deer around for hours and burn tons of energy when you can hunt mice or chipmunks or rabbits or birds etc etc etc that are much easier to come by than a deer that can run as fast or faster than the hunter.....
without the prey, the predators will not be there and the habitat will not support the population size of the predators...plain and simple.
deer hunters hunt where deer are because they want to kill a deer...same with the predators...they live and roam and hunt where they can find their food....
just like they did out west years ago killing all the wolves and such thinking it would make "hunters paradise" the deer population exploded and crashed due to starvation and disease....mother nature will take care of her own if humans do not help in forms noone wants to see like starvation and disease.
the predators just keep the populations in check....they arent going to whipe out anything because if/when they do, they also whipe their own food source out...they arent dumb.......and predators prey on alot more than just deer! deer are large, fast animals. predators only take the weak/sick deer for the most part...as well as some fawns...why chase a deer around for hours and burn tons of energy when you can hunt mice or chipmunks or rabbits or birds etc etc etc that are much easier to come by than a deer that can run as fast or faster than the hunter.....
i agree with you, they usually dont bother adult doe but i have pictrures of 2 coyotes on my deskthat went after a fawn with her mother this fall in oct.
i wish i could find article of well known hunter that works forredhead group at bass pro.
he was from lock haven and had article on finding 20 somthingfawns in den,i think it was 26 fawns in 1 den.
i just cant find it, it was in paper here at one time, like 5 years ago.