PA hunting
01-08-2009, 10:54 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 16
PA hunting
I’m a born Pennsylvanian transplanted to Delaware who returns home each fall to hunt where I grew up. In the short time that I’ve been on this site I’ve read some very cogent, insightful comments. I’ve also noticed some pretty disturbing reactions to posts. Of course discussing the revolutionary changes in deer management are the driving force, with herd reduction and the failure of AR to live up to its claims as a blanket force, are part of it. But from my admittedly limited exposure to this forum, it seems that the most insidious consequence of HR and AR and the discussion of them, is fragmentation.
From my perspective, before HR and AR the PA hunting fraternity was relatively unified. There wasn’t a division over big racks versus smaller ones; if you wanted to wait on a bigger buck you did. It was a personal decision. You could tease your buds about some scrawny rack or praise them over a big one. We all had a good time and the PA hunter was part of a large force for conservation to be reckoned with both philosophically and politically. That personal choice and political clout seems to have been lost in what appears to be a strident squabble between different interest groups attempting to impose their will or ethics on others.
As viewed through a newcomer’s prism and sampled by way of this forum, things in PA have become far more “rulified” and, from my view, elitist. Perhaps this is due to the growth of hunting shows portraying deer hunting in scenarios that are far from the norm for the average person and, frankly, a long .30-30 or .35 Remington shot from our black and red Woolrich steeped PA traditions.
Today there are very real divisions between archers who use compound archery outfits costing into four digits for the latest advances (heedless of the hypocrisy that view might portray to an impartial outsider and who seem to have forgotten that in PA the inclusion of their weapon in archery season was once similarly viewed as “unethical” and “too easy”) and those who want to be able to hunt the same autumn seasons with a crossbow. There are those who enjoyed hunting for any legal buck squabbling with those who feel that only mature animals with big racks offer any challenge. I even read folks who, incredibly enough, feel as if junior hunters should be held to restrictive antler restrictions, forgetting their youth, and others who tell nonresident hunters who pay a disproportionate amount to manage PA wildlife to hunt here, to stay home if they don’t like it.
There are some significant issues going on in PA, not the least of which is the growing schism between those who hunt on public land versus those who don’t, and the increasing inclusion of eco groups in this whole decision-making process. We need to work together to resolve them satisfactorily, and I fail to see how name calling or labeling anyone will accomplish that.
I’m sure some of you will react defensively to this post. Justifiably, I might add. Before you flame this post, read it again and, if you find yourself in its words, ask yourself why it is you feel that way. But the stark truth is that we need to start looking for some common ground here.
From my perspective, before HR and AR the PA hunting fraternity was relatively unified. There wasn’t a division over big racks versus smaller ones; if you wanted to wait on a bigger buck you did. It was a personal decision. You could tease your buds about some scrawny rack or praise them over a big one. We all had a good time and the PA hunter was part of a large force for conservation to be reckoned with both philosophically and politically. That personal choice and political clout seems to have been lost in what appears to be a strident squabble between different interest groups attempting to impose their will or ethics on others.
As viewed through a newcomer’s prism and sampled by way of this forum, things in PA have become far more “rulified” and, from my view, elitist. Perhaps this is due to the growth of hunting shows portraying deer hunting in scenarios that are far from the norm for the average person and, frankly, a long .30-30 or .35 Remington shot from our black and red Woolrich steeped PA traditions.
Today there are very real divisions between archers who use compound archery outfits costing into four digits for the latest advances (heedless of the hypocrisy that view might portray to an impartial outsider and who seem to have forgotten that in PA the inclusion of their weapon in archery season was once similarly viewed as “unethical” and “too easy”) and those who want to be able to hunt the same autumn seasons with a crossbow. There are those who enjoyed hunting for any legal buck squabbling with those who feel that only mature animals with big racks offer any challenge. I even read folks who, incredibly enough, feel as if junior hunters should be held to restrictive antler restrictions, forgetting their youth, and others who tell nonresident hunters who pay a disproportionate amount to manage PA wildlife to hunt here, to stay home if they don’t like it.
There are some significant issues going on in PA, not the least of which is the growing schism between those who hunt on public land versus those who don’t, and the increasing inclusion of eco groups in this whole decision-making process. We need to work together to resolve them satisfactorily, and I fail to see how name calling or labeling anyone will accomplish that.
I’m sure some of you will react defensively to this post. Justifiably, I might add. Before you flame this post, read it again and, if you find yourself in its words, ask yourself why it is you feel that way. But the stark truth is that we need to start looking for some common ground here.
01-08-2009, 12:19 PM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
RE: PA hunting
The one thing that i have learned over the last 20 years that deer hunting has become a hot commodity in Illinois is that it is probably the number one hunting sport for bringing out the worst in some people. Don't think it is gonna change.
01-08-2009, 12:29 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio,mid
Posts: 1,275
RE: PA hunting
Confused,You alreadylabeled yourself and will be told go to h_ _l! You are exactly right in your thoughts. I do see some of my feeling listed. i wonder who else will see the side you take or non side? Excellent thoughts!
01-08-2009, 12:44 PM
#4
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 701
RE: PA hunting
A lot of wisdom in your Post. I am tired of fighting with the PGC. I just moved on and hunt another state where the game commission realizes their best commodity is the hunter notspecial interest groups with payoffs.I really feel for the last 3 doe on a piece of property that is driven and driven blasted at day after day then drove into a chain link fence and slaughtered all 3 while they were bouncing on and off the fence. Them Guys never would of done that 10 years ago to tag a deer. I use to hunt with them. But their frustration of not seeing deer made demons of them. Illegal activity has increased the past 5 years. I see it and report it to no avail. I want to cry when I see my old farm I was raised on thru the 60s and 70s. a couple sets of tracks is all I see. That was some of the last deer I have been seeing on the farm. Well last saturday they were killed against a fence. Somewhere around 15 shots fired by 3 slobs.Aint nothing I could do about it. The land belongs to someone else. I live up the street and retired. I see what goes on.The farm borders gamelands 52 which is void of deer. Yes the scramble for good land to hunt on and the competition pumped up by TV has fragmented the Pa hunter. What a shame!
01-08-2009, 01:04 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio,mid
Posts: 1,275
01-08-2009, 02:27 PM
#8
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central PA
Posts: 829
RE: PA hunting
Great post. Speaking personally, my feelings are this... Our Game Comission has promoted the excessive slaughter of our deer herd. Alot of us are upset with the direction the Pagc policies have taken us. I havea conservative mindset in which I want to see more deer in the wmu's surrounding where I live. We have come to the point where we need to bond together not for our own personal interest but for the overall benefit of the experience and more importantly thegame animalswe hunt. This is a double edged sword- save our sport and get others into hunting but also stabilizing or maintaining the deer populations. More hunters = more deer killed. The trend has been oppositemeaning- less deer killed = less hunters purchasing licenses. I feel having an AR is necessary for managing bucks however, the current system is flawed and while I am seeing bigger bucks thedecrease in the population due to Herd Reductions is beginning to make me wonder if the trade-off is worth it. Anyone reading that last statement and has read my prior AR posts will see this is the first time I have ever written anything that would show me having doubt in AR.And that is only because of the way the PAGChasimplemented it.I mainly hunt private land because the PAGC's policies have less impact on the areas I manage on my own. I do not have faith in our Game Commission to do anything other than what is best for their pockets and pensions. I feel the Game Commission needs to get their s#!+ together and worry about managing wildlife instead of implementing new methods of killing more animals that we do not have. Let's work on restoring rabbit , pheasant, woodcock and other species to a self sustaining population before killing off more deer and continuing to let these other species dwindle in numbers reducing the desire for current hunters to continue hunting. TRY TO SATISFY YOUR CURRENT and HISTORICALLY LOYAL CUSTOMERS BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO GET NEW ONESBY LURING THEM WITHNEW LIBERAL WEAPON SCHEMES. Fix what you have broken before creating a bigger hole in your sinking ship. The sad part is you know as well as I do the hunters will never join together in great enough numbers for anything to be done. We each have our own "special interest" that we feel is more important while others want to fight against us to get their "special interest" met. It's a losing battle for us when we have to deal with an organization which is independent and members of which are chosen from inside and not chosen by us who pay for their greed guided agendas. I would love to see the whole Commission get scrapped from top down and rebuilt by an electoral process. The dead weight has done nothing good for long enough, time for an overhaul!
01-08-2009, 02:58 PM
#10
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 7,208
RE: PA hunting
You made a nice well thought out post. Most on here cannot claim that.
I didn't grow up in the normal deep rooted traditions that most PA hunters did.I don't understand them and frankly I'm glad I wasn't a part of them. I like some of the new changes, I hate others, but whatever comes down the road I'll adapt as best I can and try to enjoy myself while in the woods hunting.
I didn't grow up in the normal deep rooted traditions that most PA hunters did.I don't understand them and frankly I'm glad I wasn't a part of them. I like some of the new changes, I hate others, but whatever comes down the road I'll adapt as best I can and try to enjoy myself while in the woods hunting.