PA hunting
01-09-2009, 05:33 PM
#61
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: PA hunting
At least now I see where you are coming from. But no, I dont agree. I usually see more in 2B. I rarely travel in 2D so cant really comment on that wmu.
Must remember. All of those were reduced as well. In fact most if not all wmus in the state have been. Its not a matter of proper deer management wether or not one wmu has less or more deer than another. One can have 35 dpsm, be right on the money and another can have 25 and way too many when considering human conflict and impact on the habitat.
Must remember. All of those were reduced as well. In fact most if not all wmus in the state have been. Its not a matter of proper deer management wether or not one wmu has less or more deer than another. One can have 35 dpsm, be right on the money and another can have 25 and way too many when considering human conflict and impact on the habitat.
01-09-2009, 05:45 PM
#62
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: PA hunting
I agree 100%. I won't pretend to know all of 2A but the portions of 2A that I have seen are farm country. I don't know hardly any farmers anywhere who thinkthey have too few deer and those guys are the ones who feed the deer and let us hunt.
01-09-2009, 05:59 PM
#63
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: PA hunting
1. that would be considered "human conflict". Human conflict, rated by PGC was "LOW" for the wmu.
2. While Id call if "farm country" for a lack of better term, actually MOST of the land is small woodlots, and reverting farmland. A fairly small percentage is actually "farmed" these days. A few cattle or sheep here or there. A cornfield or two pretty few and far between... Good number of hay fields and other openings like grown up ex-pasture etc. Bout it.
3. Probably actually more "hunting" interest than farming. Lots of people buying property in the area solely for hunting. Also lots of leasing becoming common here. the increasing number of posters are the result.
4.Still says nothing about the fact pgcs goal is SUPPOSEDLY STABILIZATION for the wmu. Thats the goal, and I dont think it right to be told a "false" goal when its clear the tags will and have been reducing not stabilizing the last 4 years.
5.The farmers most certainly acheive MUCH relief anyways with so far over 50% ow herd reduction for the wmu.
6. For the very few that want more reduction, there are dmap, red tag, and legislation making it possible for them (or others they appoint)to shoot deer 24/7 to protect their crops.
7.Many in the ehd hit area that previously allowed hunting did not the past year and a half. Lost a few places due to it myself in fact. Guess not all farmers want to see all the deer dead, especially those that value hunting for more than just pest control.
2. While Id call if "farm country" for a lack of better term, actually MOST of the land is small woodlots, and reverting farmland. A fairly small percentage is actually "farmed" these days. A few cattle or sheep here or there. A cornfield or two pretty few and far between... Good number of hay fields and other openings like grown up ex-pasture etc. Bout it.
3. Probably actually more "hunting" interest than farming. Lots of people buying property in the area solely for hunting. Also lots of leasing becoming common here. the increasing number of posters are the result.
4.Still says nothing about the fact pgcs goal is SUPPOSEDLY STABILIZATION for the wmu. Thats the goal, and I dont think it right to be told a "false" goal when its clear the tags will and have been reducing not stabilizing the last 4 years.
5.The farmers most certainly acheive MUCH relief anyways with so far over 50% ow herd reduction for the wmu.
6. For the very few that want more reduction, there are dmap, red tag, and legislation making it possible for them (or others they appoint)to shoot deer 24/7 to protect their crops.
7.Many in the ehd hit area that previously allowed hunting did not the past year and a half. Lost a few places due to it myself in fact. Guess not all farmers want to see all the deer dead, especially those that value hunting for more than just pest control.
01-09-2009, 08:47 PM
#64
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: PA hunting
road kill here in western clinton county is very unusual thing now even tho there should be some because the feed this year is near roads.
i dont think a road kill is good gauge of how many deer are around, its like looking at tracks, 2 deer can make a lot of tracks.
tracks and road kills should never be use to estimate deer numbers.
what shoulkd be used ishunters like me and others that are out there a lot.
remember the dcnr fly over in dark to count deer,well, they did not find many in clinton and blamed weather for not seeing deer and also said they wrre hiding under pine trees.
right hiding under pine trees, YOU HAVE TO LAUGH
i dont think a road kill is good gauge of how many deer are around, its like looking at tracks, 2 deer can make a lot of tracks.
tracks and road kills should never be use to estimate deer numbers.
what shoulkd be used ishunters like me and others that are out there a lot.
remember the dcnr fly over in dark to count deer,well, they did not find many in clinton and blamed weather for not seeing deer and also said they wrre hiding under pine trees.
right hiding under pine trees, YOU HAVE TO LAUGH
01-10-2009, 01:58 PM
#67
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: PA hunting
ORIGINAL: bluebird2
Wrong again!!!! FLIR can not detect deer in heavy stands of pines.
Wrong again!!!! FLIR can not detect deer in heavy stands of pines.
01-10-2009, 04:16 PM
#68
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Southampton Pa BUCKS CO
Posts: 2,492
RE: PA hunting
ORIGINAL: Confused
I’m a born Pennsylvanian transplanted to Delaware who returns home each fall to hunt where I grew up. In the short time that I’ve been on this site I’ve read some very cogent, insightful comments. I’ve also noticed some pretty disturbing reactions to posts. Of course discussing the revolutionary changes in deer management are the driving force, with herd reduction and the failure of AR to live up to its claims as a blanket force, are part of it. But from my admittedly limited exposure to this forum, it seems that the most insidious consequence of HR and AR and the discussion of them, is fragmentation.
From my perspective, before HR and AR the PA hunting fraternity was relatively unified. There wasn’t a division over big racks versus smaller ones; if you wanted to wait on a bigger buck you did. It was a personal decision. You could tease your buds about some scrawny rack or praise them over a big one. We all had a good time and the PA hunter was part of a large force for conservation to be reckoned with both philosophically and politically. That personal choice and political clout seems to have been lost in what appears to be a strident squabble between different interest groups attempting to impose their will or ethics on others.
As viewed through a newcomer’s prism and sampled by way of this forum, things in PA have become far more “rulified” and, from my view, elitist. Perhaps this is due to the growth of hunting shows portraying deer hunting in scenarios that are far from the norm for the average person and, frankly, a long .30-30 or .35 Remington shot from our black and red Woolrich steeped PA traditions.
Today there are very real divisions between archers who use compound archery outfits costing into four digits for the latest advances (heedless of the hypocrisy that view might portray to an impartial outsider and who seem to have forgotten that in PA the inclusion of their weapon in archery season was once similarly viewed as “unethical” and “too easy”) and those who want to be able to hunt the same autumn seasons with a crossbow. There are those who enjoyed hunting for any legal buck squabbling with those who feel that only mature animals with big racks offer any challenge. I even read folks who, incredibly enough, feel as if junior hunters should be held to restrictive antler restrictions, forgetting their youth, and others who tell nonresident hunters who pay a disproportionate amount to manage PA wildlife to hunt here, to stay home if they don’t like it.
There are some significant issues going on in PA, not the least of which is the growing schism between those who hunt on public land versus those who don’t, and the increasing inclusion of eco groups in this whole decision-making process. We need to work together to resolve them satisfactorily, and I fail to see how name calling or labeling anyone will accomplish that.
I’m sure some of you will react defensively to this post. Justifiably, I might add. Before you flame this post, read it again and, if you find yourself in its words, ask yourself why it is you feel that way. But the stark truth is that we need to start looking for some common ground here.
I’m a born Pennsylvanian transplanted to Delaware who returns home each fall to hunt where I grew up. In the short time that I’ve been on this site I’ve read some very cogent, insightful comments. I’ve also noticed some pretty disturbing reactions to posts. Of course discussing the revolutionary changes in deer management are the driving force, with herd reduction and the failure of AR to live up to its claims as a blanket force, are part of it. But from my admittedly limited exposure to this forum, it seems that the most insidious consequence of HR and AR and the discussion of them, is fragmentation.
From my perspective, before HR and AR the PA hunting fraternity was relatively unified. There wasn’t a division over big racks versus smaller ones; if you wanted to wait on a bigger buck you did. It was a personal decision. You could tease your buds about some scrawny rack or praise them over a big one. We all had a good time and the PA hunter was part of a large force for conservation to be reckoned with both philosophically and politically. That personal choice and political clout seems to have been lost in what appears to be a strident squabble between different interest groups attempting to impose their will or ethics on others.
As viewed through a newcomer’s prism and sampled by way of this forum, things in PA have become far more “rulified” and, from my view, elitist. Perhaps this is due to the growth of hunting shows portraying deer hunting in scenarios that are far from the norm for the average person and, frankly, a long .30-30 or .35 Remington shot from our black and red Woolrich steeped PA traditions.
Today there are very real divisions between archers who use compound archery outfits costing into four digits for the latest advances (heedless of the hypocrisy that view might portray to an impartial outsider and who seem to have forgotten that in PA the inclusion of their weapon in archery season was once similarly viewed as “unethical” and “too easy”) and those who want to be able to hunt the same autumn seasons with a crossbow. There are those who enjoyed hunting for any legal buck squabbling with those who feel that only mature animals with big racks offer any challenge. I even read folks who, incredibly enough, feel as if junior hunters should be held to restrictive antler restrictions, forgetting their youth, and others who tell nonresident hunters who pay a disproportionate amount to manage PA wildlife to hunt here, to stay home if they don’t like it.
There are some significant issues going on in PA, not the least of which is the growing schism between those who hunt on public land versus those who don’t, and the increasing inclusion of eco groups in this whole decision-making process. We need to work together to resolve them satisfactorily, and I fail to see how name calling or labeling anyone will accomplish that.
I’m sure some of you will react defensively to this post. Justifiably, I might add. Before you flame this post, read it again and, if you find yourself in its words, ask yourself why it is you feel that way. But the stark truth is that we need to start looking for some common ground here.
Hatchet Jack
01-10-2009, 04:28 PM
#70
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Southampton Pa BUCKS CO
Posts: 2,492
RE: PA hunting
ORIGINAL: rybohunter
If the history of this and several other message boards where PA hunters are involved...good luck finding common ground. Right or wrong there seems to be far too much division already and no one willing to compromise. The days of yesteryear are long gone and never coming back. Once a person can grasp that concept we can move on, but far too many cannot get over that point. So at this point the focus needs to be where to go from here rather than desperately trying to turn back the clock. A lot of the "right" answers for the deer and means for wildlife management aren't the answers that hunters want to hear.Smaller units-can't do that, too complex. Bigger units-can't do that, it doesn't work. Longer seasons-can'tdo that, we'll kill all the deer. Shorter seasons-can'tdo that I want to hunt. AR's-can'tdo that, I want to shoot my spiker No AR's-Hey where all the big bucks go? License hike-can't do that,there's no game to hunt.PGC needs to stop poachers-can'tdo that, they have no money to pay more officers.
And on it goes.
Thanks for the responses that were on topic. It would seem to be a good idea to attempt to find some common ground-something that many of us can agree on.
And on it goes.
Hatchet Jack