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Old 01-14-2009, 03:17 AM
  #171  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
Default RE: PA hunting

Young does often cycle into estrous later resulting in late born fawns with lower survival rates.
Are you calling 1.5 yo doe "young"? I do not believe that 1.5 doe have a problem being timely bred.
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Old 01-14-2009, 03:39 AM
  #172  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Default RE: PA hunting

The fact still remains that weight of the sampling shifted between WMU's
But the change occurred before breeding rates began to decrease. Breeding rates were stable when the shift in sample size occurred.So, RSB disproved his own theory.
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Old 01-14-2009, 03:59 AM
  #173  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: PA hunting


ORIGINAL: livbucks

Young does often cycle into estrous later resulting in late born fawns with lower survival rates.
Are you calling 1.5 yo doe "young"? I do not believe that 1.5 doe have a problem being timely bred.
Check out the productivity of 2yr. (1.5) and 3 yr. old (2.5) does in Table 2 of this link.

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/lib/p...e/21001-05.pdf


It is clear that the 2.5 doe are more productive than the 1.5 doe.
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:07 AM
  #174  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: PA hunting

Yes they are but they don't get bred any earlier.
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:17 AM
  #175  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Default RE: PA hunting

No one said that they did. So, what is your point? I was discussing the percent that were bred rather than when they were bred.

BTW, your post on the on the other MB, about the B/D ratio, looked like I wrote it.
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:23 AM
  #176  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Default RE: PA hunting

livbucks made a comment about it.

Take away the issues with the habitat and you and Iprobablyaren't that far off in many of our opinions.
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:29 AM
  #177  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Default RE: PA hunting

Where does it break down the perentage that were bred?I see where it breaks down the number of embyoes/doe.It's never been a secret that older does produce more fawns or that those fawns have a higher rate of survival.


By the way,as usual,I was right and cornelius was wrong.He stated earlier that the conceprion rate for fawns was not an indicator used to herd health.It clearly states in that report that it is.It also clearly states that 2A the fawns in 2A had one of the worst reproductive rates in the state.
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:36 AM
  #178  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: PA hunting

livbucks made a comment about it.
Livbucks comment was about timely breeding ,not early breeding.
Where does it break down the perentage that were bred?I see where it breaks down the number of embyoes/doe.It's never been a secret that older does produce more fawns or that those fawns have a higher rate of survival

It doesn't break down the percentage that were bred, but it is fact that 1.5 doe have both lower breeding rates and productivity than older doe. Also, lower breeding for 1.5 doe would result in a lower average embryos/doe for the doe that were checked.
It also clearly states that 2A the fawns in 2A had one of the worst reproductive rates in the stat


But, the PGC still rated 2A as being at its target goal for herd health, because fawn breeding rates are not give n a lot of weight in determining herd health. In 3B only 3% of the fawns were bred and it was still rated at the target goal.

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Old 01-14-2009, 07:14 AM
  #179  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Default RE: PA hunting

They judge the breeding ates of the 3.5 year old does first and the conception rates of the fawns second.
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:33 AM
  #180  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Default RE: PA hunting

Fawn breeding rates are really a poor indicator of herd health since are dtermined more by the length of the growing season, soil fertility and the amount of agriculture in a WMU.
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