PA Regulations??
01-09-2009, 10:11 AM
#171
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
RE: PA Regulations??
Uh,
1.Inever said MOST states, i said that it has been happening in state after state which is true if you bothered to check the numbers of states that have recently legalized the use of crossbows or have expanded their legal in various ways. Furthermore, my understanding is that any hunting with crossbows was pretty much illegal in all states several decades ago, but now plenty of states allow it in various forms. So, there is a general trend toward legalization.
2.Your facts and opinions about theuse of crossbows as a weapon of choice by poachersare absurd and even some of your own fellow antis havenot backedyouon that. So, whose opinion is meaningless here.
3.And yes, the sportsmen of the state should have a major voice in the decision, but based on informed perspectives, notbiased and often inaccurate rhetoric.
Butkeep talking, you are a one man promotion for crossbow legalization and dont even know it[8D]
1.Inever said MOST states, i said that it has been happening in state after state which is true if you bothered to check the numbers of states that have recently legalized the use of crossbows or have expanded their legal in various ways. Furthermore, my understanding is that any hunting with crossbows was pretty much illegal in all states several decades ago, but now plenty of states allow it in various forms. So, there is a general trend toward legalization.
2.Your facts and opinions about theuse of crossbows as a weapon of choice by poachersare absurd and even some of your own fellow antis havenot backedyouon that. So, whose opinion is meaningless here.
3.And yes, the sportsmen of the state should have a major voice in the decision, but based on informed perspectives, notbiased and often inaccurate rhetoric.
Butkeep talking, you are a one man promotion for crossbow legalization and dont even know it[8D]
01-09-2009, 10:30 AM
#172
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: PA Regulations??
"1.Inever said MOST states, i said that it has been happening in state after state "
State after state implies "alot". Its not "alot".
"2.Your facts and opinions about theuse of crossbows as a weapon of choice by poachersare absurd and even some of your own fellow antis havenot backedyouon that."
Sure they have. We have varying opinions on ONE issue.Poaching. There are several othersand as Ive repeated, poaching was the least of my own.I do not withhold support for crossbows because of poaching. I do so for about 6 or 8 reasons. Reasons of which many others agree with one or more. So grasp onto whatever makes you feel better in pushing your lil' agenda, but lets try to "keep it real" at least a little eh? You pathetic desparateattempts at discredit are amusing to say the least! (LOL)
"So, whose opinion is meaningless here."
Yours.
"3.And yes, the sportsmen of the state should have a major voice in the decision, but based on informed perspectives, notbiased and often inaccurate rhetoric. "
Ha ha ha. Thats something YOU would never agree on. Because if the outcome didnt favor you, and it wouldnt, you wouldnt accept it because of your distorted views of the reality of the issue. I say it doesnt matter. If hunters dont want it, based on the facts (which dont support inclusion) or just because they dont want it for ANY reason, who the heck are YOU to overrule the majority of our hunters or to judge wether their opinions are VALID ENOUGH? Get over yourself. You sound like a complete know it all jag!
"Butkeep talking, you are a one man promotion for crossbow legalization and dont even know it"
well, ok, but only if I have your permission.
State after state implies "alot". Its not "alot".
"2.Your facts and opinions about theuse of crossbows as a weapon of choice by poachersare absurd and even some of your own fellow antis havenot backedyouon that."
Sure they have. We have varying opinions on ONE issue.Poaching. There are several othersand as Ive repeated, poaching was the least of my own.I do not withhold support for crossbows because of poaching. I do so for about 6 or 8 reasons. Reasons of which many others agree with one or more. So grasp onto whatever makes you feel better in pushing your lil' agenda, but lets try to "keep it real" at least a little eh? You pathetic desparateattempts at discredit are amusing to say the least! (LOL)
"So, whose opinion is meaningless here."
Yours.
"3.And yes, the sportsmen of the state should have a major voice in the decision, but based on informed perspectives, notbiased and often inaccurate rhetoric. "
Ha ha ha. Thats something YOU would never agree on. Because if the outcome didnt favor you, and it wouldnt, you wouldnt accept it because of your distorted views of the reality of the issue. I say it doesnt matter. If hunters dont want it, based on the facts (which dont support inclusion) or just because they dont want it for ANY reason, who the heck are YOU to overrule the majority of our hunters or to judge wether their opinions are VALID ENOUGH? Get over yourself. You sound like a complete know it all jag!
"Butkeep talking, you are a one man promotion for crossbow legalization and dont even know it"
well, ok, but only if I have your permission.
01-09-2009, 10:52 AM
#173
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
RE: PA Regulations??
Uh, at one point Crossbows were universally illegal for hunting. Compared to that, the weapon is now legal (in one form or another) in almost all states, if not all of them.The trend, especially over the last decade or so has beenfor the crossbow to be expanded in terms of use beyond the disabled or very limited seasons. So, by any standard you want to use, the use of the crossow is expanding. Dunno why that is so hard to grasp.
It comes down to the fact that you started off making a big deal out of the fact that crossbows would become the ultimate poachers tool. That is the type of baseless discourse that folks try to use against legalization of the crossbow. Now that you have been called onit, you are backing away from those claims. You shot yourself in the foot and got called called on it.If you are gonna come up with wild crap like that, then why should anyone pay attention to other things you claim. That is why I say that legalization (or not) of the crossbow needs to be based on intelligent, informed discussion of the issue.
Kind of silly to argue this since the crossbow is likely gonna end up being used in PA and elsewhere because folks like you are generally the best thing that the anti movement can come up with.So,I wil yield the soapbox to you, but feel free to keepgoing. Like I said, nothing is more helpful to the crossbow movement than to have folks like you talking and talking in public. You da man.
It comes down to the fact that you started off making a big deal out of the fact that crossbows would become the ultimate poachers tool. That is the type of baseless discourse that folks try to use against legalization of the crossbow. Now that you have been called onit, you are backing away from those claims. You shot yourself in the foot and got called called on it.If you are gonna come up with wild crap like that, then why should anyone pay attention to other things you claim. That is why I say that legalization (or not) of the crossbow needs to be based on intelligent, informed discussion of the issue.
Kind of silly to argue this since the crossbow is likely gonna end up being used in PA and elsewhere because folks like you are generally the best thing that the anti movement can come up with.So,I wil yield the soapbox to you, but feel free to keepgoing. Like I said, nothing is more helpful to the crossbow movement than to have folks like you talking and talking in public. You da man.
01-09-2009, 11:03 AM
#174
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: PA Regulations??
Fact remains, as I state, MOST STATES DONT ALLOW THEM IN THEIR ARCHERY SEASON FOR ALL. Which is more "telling" than the fact a handful of states actually have legalized them thanks to the efforts of manufacturers petitioning to expand their business.
"It comes down to the fact that you started off making a big deal out of the fact that crossbows would become the ultimate poachers tool."
I actually didnt. Its not the first or foremost part of the topic Ive discussed. Its one you choose to harp on andignore all others and is the only reason its still going on. But in all fairness, It wasnt an opinion I formed out of "nowhere"... Some state agencies havestated that they had a problem with it. Take it up with them if you dontlike it.
"Kind of silly to argue this since the crossbow is likely gonna end up being used in PA and elsewhere because folks like you are generally the best thing that the anti movement can come up with."
And far better thananything YOU can come up with. Care to breech all the "maleffects" that upuntil now you've purposely and decietfully avoided? ha ha ha. I thought not.
--------------------------------------
FROM NEW YORK CONSERVATION OFFICERS ASSOCIATION.:
"The New York Conservation Officers Association was founded to promote "Conservation for Future Generations". With our commitment to ensure that future generations of New Yorkers will enjoy an abundance and variety of wildlife, we promote an adherence to the highest levels of outdoor ethics and sporting methods, and encourage respect for our wildlife and other natural resources.
We believe that management of our wildlife resources should be based on sound biological principles, population dynamics, and sustained yield principles. We feel strongly that this management should not be influenced by the profit margins of industry.
We, as officers sworn to protect our state’s wildlife, have concerns that poaching trends may be influenced by the legalization and advancing technology of crossbows. Because of this advancing technology, Ragnar Benson, the most well-known, self-proclaimed poacher on the North American Continent, has embraced the crossbow. Benson, the author of "Survival Poaching" and "Hardcore Poaching", has now published a book about the use of crossbows for various purposes, including the illegal taking of game. It is inevitable that, if crossbows come into widespread use, their use for poaching will become a problem for us to contend with. The proponents and manufacturers of crossbows have always maintained that the crossbow is not an effective implement for poaching, and that it would never gain prominence for that purpose. We, of course, disagree. The only factor that has prevented the crossbow from becoming a significant problem for wildlife enforcement officers is that not many people own them. If their use becomes legal, and ownership increases, we are certain to see their use also increase for the illegal taking of game. We would agree that the crossbow is not the most effective implement for poaching. However, when the violators consider the fact that their chances of getting caught will be considerably reduced because no shots will be heard or reported if they use a crossbow, they are certain to take up its use for their illegal activities. Why should this type of person have any concern over the fact that they may wound a few animals before they are able to take one into possession? When the chances of discovery have been almost completely negated by not using the traditional firearm and relying on the silence of the crossbow, the poacher may confidently continue to take additional shots at game that has been missed and remains undisturbed. If they hit and wound an animal and it runs off, they can simply continue their search for another victim until they are successful, because no concerned citizen will hear any shots to report to the authorities. The poacher would not be best served by the most efficient weapon at his disposal, when another best reduces his chances of being caught. Taking this into consideration, the crossbow could readily become the most effective poaching implement."
Hmmm. Interesting. Take note of red areas I highlighted for your convenience. Again, Nywco statement and views, not mine.
"It comes down to the fact that you started off making a big deal out of the fact that crossbows would become the ultimate poachers tool."
I actually didnt. Its not the first or foremost part of the topic Ive discussed. Its one you choose to harp on andignore all others and is the only reason its still going on. But in all fairness, It wasnt an opinion I formed out of "nowhere"... Some state agencies havestated that they had a problem with it. Take it up with them if you dontlike it.
"Kind of silly to argue this since the crossbow is likely gonna end up being used in PA and elsewhere because folks like you are generally the best thing that the anti movement can come up with."
And far better thananything YOU can come up with. Care to breech all the "maleffects" that upuntil now you've purposely and decietfully avoided? ha ha ha. I thought not.
--------------------------------------
FROM NEW YORK CONSERVATION OFFICERS ASSOCIATION.:
"The New York Conservation Officers Association was founded to promote "Conservation for Future Generations". With our commitment to ensure that future generations of New Yorkers will enjoy an abundance and variety of wildlife, we promote an adherence to the highest levels of outdoor ethics and sporting methods, and encourage respect for our wildlife and other natural resources.
We believe that management of our wildlife resources should be based on sound biological principles, population dynamics, and sustained yield principles. We feel strongly that this management should not be influenced by the profit margins of industry.
We, as officers sworn to protect our state’s wildlife, have concerns that poaching trends may be influenced by the legalization and advancing technology of crossbows. Because of this advancing technology, Ragnar Benson, the most well-known, self-proclaimed poacher on the North American Continent, has embraced the crossbow. Benson, the author of "Survival Poaching" and "Hardcore Poaching", has now published a book about the use of crossbows for various purposes, including the illegal taking of game. It is inevitable that, if crossbows come into widespread use, their use for poaching will become a problem for us to contend with. The proponents and manufacturers of crossbows have always maintained that the crossbow is not an effective implement for poaching, and that it would never gain prominence for that purpose. We, of course, disagree. The only factor that has prevented the crossbow from becoming a significant problem for wildlife enforcement officers is that not many people own them. If their use becomes legal, and ownership increases, we are certain to see their use also increase for the illegal taking of game. We would agree that the crossbow is not the most effective implement for poaching. However, when the violators consider the fact that their chances of getting caught will be considerably reduced because no shots will be heard or reported if they use a crossbow, they are certain to take up its use for their illegal activities. Why should this type of person have any concern over the fact that they may wound a few animals before they are able to take one into possession? When the chances of discovery have been almost completely negated by not using the traditional firearm and relying on the silence of the crossbow, the poacher may confidently continue to take additional shots at game that has been missed and remains undisturbed. If they hit and wound an animal and it runs off, they can simply continue their search for another victim until they are successful, because no concerned citizen will hear any shots to report to the authorities. The poacher would not be best served by the most efficient weapon at his disposal, when another best reduces his chances of being caught. Taking this into consideration, the crossbow could readily become the most effective poaching implement."
Hmmm. Interesting. Take note of red areas I highlighted for your convenience. Again, Nywco statement and views, not mine.
01-09-2009, 11:14 AM
#175
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: PA Regulations??
Now I gotta go, so before you go runnin off at the chops making excuses about this or that or blah blah blah, I'll address your post ahead of time as appropriately and with as much consideration as Im sure it will undoubtedly deserve.
01-09-2009, 11:54 AM
#176
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: manassas va USA
Posts: 614
RE: PA Regulations??
Crossbow Hunting Laws and Regulations for all 50 States
Cornelius:
above is a website i found that may help ya out? (read all disclaimers before ya get too carried away) It has a 2008 trademark date at the bottom so all info should be correct as of this year. It will make your "Opinions" seem a bit more legitimate than using the old "Poaching" excuse for why you think crossbows not be legalized
Cornelius:
above is a website i found that may help ya out? (read all disclaimers before ya get too carried away) It has a 2008 trademark date at the bottom so all info should be correct as of this year. It will make your "Opinions" seem a bit more legitimate than using the old "Poaching" excuse for why you think crossbows not be legalized
01-09-2009, 01:07 PM
#177
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: PA Regulations??
How is giving me a link that only confirms exactly what Ive said have anything to do with anything? As I said, the huge majority of states dont allow xguns for everyone during archery. That link shows what most of us already know.
Crossbows shouldnt be legal because we dont need more harvest in Pa. We who arent seeking shortcuts shouldnt be forced to put up with fewer and lower age class bucks. Its not a bow and doesnt belong. Rifle hunters shouldnt have to put up with even fewer.MOREbuck shouldnt be killed prior to the rut. Degrading the quality of the hunt by adding slobs and many more huntersand causing a circus atmosphere. Padding manufacturers bank accounts shouldnt be reason forimplementation. Not right to teach our youth "If something requires effort, dontput it forth, change the rules". And they can already be usedexactly as they should be. In firearms seasons. Thenwe can also add very likelyincrease in poaching according to New YorkConservation OfficersAssociation as yet one more of many.
Some may disagree with one, two, or more. But it onlytakes ONE reason tosupport NOT including them, when there is absolutely no good reason for inclusion other than a crutch to take the place of skill.
Crossbows shouldnt be legal because we dont need more harvest in Pa. We who arent seeking shortcuts shouldnt be forced to put up with fewer and lower age class bucks. Its not a bow and doesnt belong. Rifle hunters shouldnt have to put up with even fewer.MOREbuck shouldnt be killed prior to the rut. Degrading the quality of the hunt by adding slobs and many more huntersand causing a circus atmosphere. Padding manufacturers bank accounts shouldnt be reason forimplementation. Not right to teach our youth "If something requires effort, dontput it forth, change the rules". And they can already be usedexactly as they should be. In firearms seasons. Thenwe can also add very likelyincrease in poaching according to New YorkConservation OfficersAssociation as yet one more of many.
Some may disagree with one, two, or more. But it onlytakes ONE reason tosupport NOT including them, when there is absolutely no good reason for inclusion other than a crutch to take the place of skill.
01-09-2009, 01:38 PM
#180
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
RE: PA Regulations??
i see very little diffrence between these and crossbows.then take the recurve and compare it to a compound. very little diffrence other than naggers who are crying how more people will be in the woods and might get their big buck before they do. nothing more than that reason they dont want them. poaching has nothing to do with it. just a lame excuse to keep them out of season.
