bluebird2

His goal was to reduce the herd so DCNR and timber companies could get their forested certified for export. That was the motivating factor and once they started down that road there was no turning back without looking extremely stupid.

DougE

BT,that's ridiculous and you know it.The state forests comprise less than 8% of our land mass.DCNR has dmap to ensure that the state forests stay certified.If you remember correctly,they asked the PGC for baiting,longer seasons,tag sharing,group hunting and rifles throughout the entire season.They got none of that except dmap.

I agree with the extent of herd reduction in every place where I've hunted,most of it being state land.The habit all across 2G,2F,3B and 3c all showed signs of having way too many deer.We now have alot less deer still more than enough to provide excellent hunting.I kill multiple deer each year and have no problems doing so,even on public land.This year alone,I killed a 7 point and 6 dmap doe in 2G.The deer are there

germain

I think the reductions went to far on some public lands.Especially in the SE,SC.The habitat could support more deer but with easy access and more hunters staying home these places get hammered.

bluebird2

If my position is ridiculous let's see if you can explain why your position isn't even more ridiculous. The PGC kept the herd basically stable from 1987 to 1997 and the 1997 harvest kept the herd stable In 1998 and 1999 the PGC issued an all time record, at that time, of 891 K,which was more than issued in 2000 and 2001. WMU 2G was already at it's goal of 15 DPSM and the harvests were keeping the herd below the MSY carrying capacity of the habitat.

So please explain why Alt was hired to sell a plan to reduce the herd in 2G to less than half of the MSY carrying capacity of the habitat? Why is 2F being managed at almost twice the DD of 2G when the forest health in both areas is rated poor? Why didn't the breeding rates in 2G increase dramatically with twice the amount of food/deer if the habitat was as poor as you and the PGC claim? Just why did the PGC chose to ruin deer hunting for so many hunters who just enjoyed seeing dee by implementing the concurrent seasons?

DougE

Easy BT.The habitat was so degraded in 2G,that it took very few deer to continue impacting it.Many places,especially 2g needed alot less deer than the MSY.You have shown nothing to prove that the forest certification had anything to do with statewide herd reductions.Once again,thecertified forests are such a small percentage of Pa that they had no impact on the total plan.You need to get off your back 40 and seeexactly how much impact the deer had in many vast areas of 2G.the state forests are being managed at a much lower dd than the game lands which proves that forest certification had nothing to do with staewide herd reduction.

Rich,there's no doubt that the public land near urban areas have probably taken a beating.Where do those deer go when the shooting starts?

bluebird2

That is pure nonsense. The habitat had no problem recovering in 1983 when 72% of the cuts regenerated successfully. Compare that to the current regeneration rate of 42% with half as many DPSM. Furthermore, it is well known DCNR blackmailed the PGC with with holding support for the transfer of additional lands to SGLs.
That simply is not true and you don't have one iota of evidence to support that claim. The DMAP harvests are insignificant compared to the WMU wide harvests.

DougE

It's not nonsense and the PGC,US FOREST SERVICEand DCNR have all the evidence inthe world to prove it.

The state forests are absolutely being managed at lower deer densities.They're getting dmap'd and you were able to kill doe the entire two weeks in the WMU's that had antkerless season shortened by a week.That proves that theyre being managed for a lower dd than the rest of the state.

bluebird2

If DMAPs are so efficient and have lowered the DD on DCNR ,can you explain why the 2006 DCNR study showed that only 22% of the plots surveyed had regenerated successfully, while the PGC surveys showed 42% were regenerating in 2G? And, what is the harvest rate for DMAP tags in terms of deer killed PSM of forest?

bawanajim

If you were to look into the failure of generation for generations its clear to see that through generations of lack of regeneration the outlook for future generations to generate has been greatly reduced,generally speaking.

bluebird2

I think you should add yourself to your ignore list.