Do you agree with extent of Herd Reduction in Pa?
12-30-2008, 07:29 PM
#91
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Do you agree with extent of Herd Reduction in Pa?
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Not exactly. First, you and many others here have said that you like it here because you've been banned from boards like huntingpa so the voting may be skewed by the recent influx of membersrejected by other boards. Some of those have aliases as a moderator recently pointed out on this thread. I suspect there may be some here who managed to vote more than once. Do I havr proof? No. Maybe we can ask Rob ifsome of those aliases he admonished voted twice
Also, you include the choice that says "a little overdone" as non PGC supporters.Thats happens to be my choice.I would contend that those who made that choice want changes but stillshow general support.
What do you suppose would be the results if your poll was conducted on Huntingpa? I think we both know.
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08
According to this poll, 80% do not support the deer program as is.
78% believe hr was overdone.
Only 20% support as is.
1 guy voted for less deer than pgc wants.
Where is this huge majority that supports pgc?? This is pretty much what I hear and see everywhere I go. Except even less support it.
According to this poll, 80% do not support the deer program as is.
78% believe hr was overdone.
Only 20% support as is.
1 guy voted for less deer than pgc wants.
Where is this huge majority that supports pgc?? This is pretty much what I hear and see everywhere I go. Except even less support it.
Also, you include the choice that says "a little overdone" as non PGC supporters.Thats happens to be my choice.I would contend that those who made that choice want changes but stillshow general support.
What do you suppose would be the results if your poll was conducted on Huntingpa? I think we both know.
anyone that is not supporter,you will be banned off that site.does not take much to be BANNED from the HPA.
this forum lets you speak TRUTH, they are not in pocket of the GAME COMMISSIONS OR THE DCNR .
as long as we dont attack each other to much, everything is fine here BUT try any thing they can ban you on HPA, they will do it.
so, YES you are right, if POLL was on the HPA forum, it would show suppport for PGC/DCNR,no doubt about that.
but when POLL is on here and in the outdoor times, the PGC/DCNR does not have influence backers there to get people banned ,so that poll should be accurate.
12-30-2008, 09:37 PM
#92
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 147
RE: Do you agree with extent of Herd Reduction in Pa?
Opinion polls are totally meaningless unless they are done in a manner that they collect an unbiased sampling of unbiased questions.
The polls you quoted don’t fit the billing of unbiased on either of those fronts.
That is the reason professional polling firms are contracted by the various agencies to get the true results of what the public does or doesn’t support and what they want to see for the future. The professional polls done by unbiased professional firms do show that the majority of the hunters and the general public support the current deer management direction and objectives.
When I get time I will dig up the results of some of the more recent professional and unbiased and polls dealing with subjects of interest for deer hunters.
R.S. Bodenhorn
12-30-2008, 09:46 PM
#93
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: Do you agree with extent of Herd Reduction in Pa?
"Opinion polls are totally meaningless unless they are done in a manner that they collect an unbiased sampling of unbiased questions. "
Many unbiased questions were posed on the surveys I cited. The people were either for it or against it. I think the outcome was clear. Also I dont believe for one second that if the exact same question was posed to the exact same people thattook the poll...and instead it was done by phoneor mailand sent out by ANYONE else other than the authors of the original polls,that the response wouldve been one lick different.... It wouldnt have.
"The polls you quoted don’t fit the billing of unbiased on either of those fronts."
Sure they do.They were also on completely open to the public forums that don't limit members or censor the topic in any way, not to mention surveys from SEVERAL sites, all garnering the same results.
"That is the reason professional polling firms are contracted by the various agencies to get the true results of what the public does or doesn’t support"
No. They are implemented 9 times out of ten to get a desired result. Instead of asking something like DO YOU OR DONT YOU SUPPORT HR? Pgc would be slick and have them ask...Do you think thedeer herd health should be a concern? And when 99% including myself say YES, they then point to that as support! Thatspure manipulative b.s. that thoroughly avoids the malignant issues.
"When I get time I will dig up the results of some of the more recent professional and unbiased and polls dealing with subjects of interest for deer hunters."
In case you havent noticed, the topic of this thread, and what most of the polls I cited are about is also what is currently causing most of our problems and thats why I posted about THAT and not "other subjects of interest to deer hunters"... Since there are thing that I am not against even myself. I posted about what I see as the biggest problem currently, and I think many others feel likewise. It is THEE issue that has most hunters p-o-ed. It is preventing a license fee increase, and caused alot of other maleffect. For pgc even to waste their breathaddressing OTHER issues and ignore the actual problem is absurd.
Also, I have seen some of the more recent polls referred to already. VERY vague questions that 100% avoid the real issues that our sportsmen are currently thouroughly disgusted about. These polls citedHERE are 100% parallell to what I see and hear anywhere I go throughout the year.
Theseopinions werent bought and paid for or manipulated by vaguenonsensical lines of questioning or cleverly worded. And there was no deceit involved. Just straight forward questions answered by hunters.
Have Pgc ask hunters if they want to have the herd level addressed (increased). Ask them straight up do they support herd reduction as is or do they want change. Ask them if they agree with pgc or think it was unnecessarily excessive. Ask them ifPGC is currently a very hunter oriented organization who are doing a good job addressing the hunters deer concerns...The response, like these, will be OVERWHELMING in anti-response. But Pgc doesnt want to hear that do they? They already KNOW it.
Btw, tell your superiors to quit wasting money on nonsense sham surveys to a tiny amount of peoplethat do nothing but insult our intelligence...Or worse yet, asking their favorite yes men organization... Spend less money on a small card with a handful of RELEVANT MEANINGFUL questions included with the license. I and I believe most Pa hunters willhappily pay for a stamp to send it in if it is shown our opinion on REAL issues is actually wanted.
Many unbiased questions were posed on the surveys I cited. The people were either for it or against it. I think the outcome was clear. Also I dont believe for one second that if the exact same question was posed to the exact same people thattook the poll...and instead it was done by phoneor mailand sent out by ANYONE else other than the authors of the original polls,that the response wouldve been one lick different...
. It wouldnt have."The polls you quoted don’t fit the billing of unbiased on either of those fronts."
Sure they do.They were also on completely open to the public forums that don't limit members or censor the topic in any way, not to mention surveys from SEVERAL sites, all garnering the same results.
"That is the reason professional polling firms are contracted by the various agencies to get the true results of what the public does or doesn’t support"
No. They are implemented 9 times out of ten to get a desired result. Instead of asking something like DO YOU OR DONT YOU SUPPORT HR? Pgc would be slick and have them ask...Do you think thedeer herd health should be a concern? And when 99% including myself say YES, they then point to that as support! Thatspure manipulative b.s. that thoroughly avoids the malignant issues.
"When I get time I will dig up the results of some of the more recent professional and unbiased and polls dealing with subjects of interest for deer hunters."
In case you havent noticed, the topic of this thread, and what most of the polls I cited are about is also what is currently causing most of our problems and thats why I posted about THAT and not "other subjects of interest to deer hunters"... Since there are thing that I am not against even myself. I posted about what I see as the biggest problem currently, and I think many others feel likewise. It is THEE issue that has most hunters p-o-ed. It is preventing a license fee increase, and caused alot of other maleffect. For pgc even to waste their breathaddressing OTHER issues and ignore the actual problem is absurd.
Also, I have seen some of the more recent polls referred to already. VERY vague questions that 100% avoid the real issues that our sportsmen are currently thouroughly disgusted about. These polls citedHERE are 100% parallell to what I see and hear anywhere I go throughout the year.
Theseopinions werent bought and paid for or manipulated by vaguenonsensical lines of questioning or cleverly worded. And there was no deceit involved. Just straight forward questions answered by hunters.
Have Pgc ask hunters if they want to have the herd level addressed (increased). Ask them straight up do they support herd reduction as is or do they want change. Ask them if they agree with pgc or think it was unnecessarily excessive. Ask them ifPGC is currently a very hunter oriented organization who are doing a good job addressing the hunters deer concerns...The response, like these, will be OVERWHELMING in anti-response. But Pgc doesnt want to hear that do they? They already KNOW it.
Btw, tell your superiors to quit wasting money on nonsense sham surveys to a tiny amount of peoplethat do nothing but insult our intelligence...Or worse yet, asking their favorite yes men organization... Spend less money on a small card with a handful of RELEVANT MEANINGFUL questions included with the license. I and I believe most Pa hunters willhappily pay for a stamp to send it in if it is shown our opinion on REAL issues is actually wanted.
12-31-2008, 05:18 AM
#94
Spike
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 86
RE: Do you agree with extent of Herd Reduction in Pa?
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08
Btw, tell your superiors to quit wasting money on nonsense sham surveys to a tiny amount of peoplethat do nothing but insult our intelligence...Or worse yet, asking their favorite yes men organization... Spend less money on a small card with a handful of RELEVANT MEANINGFUL questions included with the license. I and I believe most Pa hunters willhappily pay for a stamp to send it in if it is shown our opinion on REAL issues is actually wanted.
Btw, tell your superiors to quit wasting money on nonsense sham surveys to a tiny amount of peoplethat do nothing but insult our intelligence...Or worse yet, asking their favorite yes men organization... Spend less money on a small card with a handful of RELEVANT MEANINGFUL questions included with the license. I and I believe most Pa hunters willhappily pay for a stamp to send it in if it is shown our opinion on REAL issues is actually wanted.
12-31-2008, 08:53 AM
#95
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio,mid
Posts: 1,275
RE: Do you agree with extent of Herd Reduction in Pa?
As in PA for Bear and Ohio for deer , make it a requirement to check them in for a tag. In Ohio you temp tag, check oit in and they put the metal tag on the deer. The deer check in stations also are license sales, so when one is checked in you go to the counter and purchase anopther deer tag. None of this send in and wait crap. Again, PA is so far behind the times it is ridiculous. This OTC license purchase they are having problems w/ is anothe rload of crap when most every state they border has had it in an and is sucessful w/ the program. People will not send in cards that are not prestamped, just human nature!
12-31-2008, 09:05 AM
#97
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Do you agree with extent of Herd Reduction in Pa?
I agree BH1
The excuses for us not having an automated license AND REPORTING system by now are simply lame. Plenty of other states have had a system up and running for years. I understand that the vendor they hired to do it was the problem. That vendor should have been dumped and a proven one hired years ago!
The excuses for us not having an automated license AND REPORTING system by now are simply lame. Plenty of other states have had a system up and running for years. I understand that the vendor they hired to do it was the problem. That vendor should have been dumped and a proven one hired years ago!
12-31-2008, 10:19 AM
#98
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: Do you agree with extent of Herd Reduction in Pa?
my BIGGEST concern i am seeing,RIGHT NOW, is lack of fawns.
study penn state did showed the bears/coyotes/bobcats did kill fawns.
i am seeing coyotes most doing it.
there has to be way of killing these coyotes off,we have got to find way other than hunting them, that is not working .
some say its habitat that is causing less fawns, I AM NOT GOING TO DISAGREE WITH THAT but i feel its the coyotes from the barking i hear in june and only month of june i hear it .
study penn state did showed the bears/coyotes/bobcats did kill fawns.
i am seeing coyotes most doing it.
there has to be way of killing these coyotes off,we have got to find way other than hunting them, that is not working .
some say its habitat that is causing less fawns, I AM NOT GOING TO DISAGREE WITH THAT but i feel its the coyotes from the barking i hear in june and only month of june i hear it .
12-31-2008, 11:04 AM
#99
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Do you agree with extent of Herd Reduction in Pa?
Poor habitat can make the impact of coyote predation more severe. In areas where the understory is browsed to the point of being open woods and in areas of older pole timber, the fawns who have very little in evasive skills have to rely on their instinct to be still. Coyotes can simply spot them easier with sparse cover.
Don't underestimate the bears though. the fawn mortality study actually put bears on an equal level when it comes to early fawn predation.
Don't underestimate the bears though. the fawn mortality study actually put bears on an equal level when it comes to early fawn predation.
12-31-2008, 03:31 PM
#100
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio,mid
Posts: 1,275
RE: Do you agree with extent of Herd Reduction in Pa?
Coyotes will only breed enough to create the pack. They will not over breed where it causes food shortages for the pack. You will never kill them off unless you bounty them. I hunt them year round and kill the h_ _l out of them. I hunt them in 2 states and I can honestly say I have never seen a shortage of them I put them as the smartest game animal in the woods today. That of course is my opinion. You will only get one set up on them and they will never appraoch a set like that again. Bears are becoming more prevealnt out theere but i do not beleive they have the numbers to even the coyote deprivation like the Yote! Sheer Numbers don't add up? I willl give credit to stray dogs, farm dogs etc. I have been known to pop them when they are where they don't belong. Yesy, I have hunting dogs, but they are trained and in check!! Not loose! Coyotes, that is your cu;prit!