PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
12-26-2008, 01:22 AM
#31
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 179
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
ORIGINAL: WCO R.W.J
Some money comes in from people that illegally use semi's on the trap line.
Timber and mineral rights alsobut the lion share comes from hunters but it doesnt change our mission that covers all wildlife. IF hunters no longer want to foot the bill for conservation the general fund will and we all know how well thats working out for bear hunters in NJ and bird hunters in NY.
Some money comes in from people that illegally use semi's on the trap line.
Timber and mineral rights alsobut the lion share comes from hunters but it doesnt change our mission that covers all wildlife. IF hunters no longer want to foot the bill for conservation the general fund will and we all know how well thats working out for bear hunters in NJ and bird hunters in NY.
Putting animals back in PA that became non existance should not been the priority. The animals that was left here was what the funds was for I would of thought. Do you think that if hunters knew that their money wasn't priority for the game they hunt that they would pay for a license? I don't think so. The money by hunters was for their animals and not for everything that wasn't here. How many would buy a license if it wasn't for their sport? Animals for hunters to hunt should be the number 1 priority and the satisfaction of hunters wants should come first. Again what part of that don't you people understand? Hunters need animals to hunt and pay a fee to hunt these animals. PGC job is to provide these animals and are not doing a very good job of it.
What are elk for? I mean serious? Is everyone going to able to hunt these animals one day in PA? I don't think so. How many people actually care if we have elk in PA? If I can't hunt them what good are they? And there is no way everyone will be able to hunt them in the future without a raffle on them. If the so called deer herd can't survive with how many deer how is an animal 4 + the same size as deer that feed the same as deer going to survive in large numbers? It don't make sense with what is going on in our state.
12-26-2008, 06:18 AM
#32
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Washington County
Posts: 143
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
ORIGINAL: sammy_tat
Again hunting and trapping do not apply the same laws. Again if I am allowed to kill a trapped animal in my trap on sunday and am not allowed to hunt that same animal on sunday,that tells me that a trappedanimal is nothunting and the laws are different. You can't say that hunting and trapping is the same and go by the same laws. Would a trap animal fall under the catogory of fairchase also? I don't think that would be considered a fair chase while the animal can't run or hide. To shoot an animal in a trap would be illegal also then. Whats so fair about walking up to an animal in a trap and shooting it? But we have fairchase laws don't we?
Putting animals back in PA that became non existance should not been the priority. The animals that was left here was what the funds was for I would of thought. Do you think that if hunters knew that their money wasn't priority for the game they hunt that they would pay for a license? I don't think so. The money by hunters was for their animals and not for everything that wasn't here. How many would buy a license if it wasn't for their sport? Animals for hunters to hunt should be the number 1 priority and the satisfaction of hunters wants should come first. Again what part of that don't you people understand? Hunters need animals to hunt and pay a fee to hunt these animals. PGC job is to provide these animals and are not doing a very good job of it.
What are elk for? I mean serious? Is everyone going to able to hunt these animals one day in PA? I don't think so. How many people actually care if we have elk in PA? If I can't hunt them what good are they? And there is no way everyone will be able to hunt them in the future without a raffle on them. If the so called deer herd can't survive with how many deer how is an animal 4 + the same size as deer that feed the same as deer going to survive in large numbers? It don't make sense with what is going on in our state.
ORIGINAL: WCO R.W.J
Some money comes in from people that illegally use semi's on the trap line.
Timber and mineral rights alsobut the lion share comes from hunters but it doesnt change our mission that covers all wildlife. IF hunters no longer want to foot the bill for conservation the general fund will and we all know how well thats working out for bear hunters in NJ and bird hunters in NY.
Some money comes in from people that illegally use semi's on the trap line.
Timber and mineral rights alsobut the lion share comes from hunters but it doesnt change our mission that covers all wildlife. IF hunters no longer want to foot the bill for conservation the general fund will and we all know how well thats working out for bear hunters in NJ and bird hunters in NY.
Putting animals back in PA that became non existance should not been the priority. The animals that was left here was what the funds was for I would of thought. Do you think that if hunters knew that their money wasn't priority for the game they hunt that they would pay for a license? I don't think so. The money by hunters was for their animals and not for everything that wasn't here. How many would buy a license if it wasn't for their sport? Animals for hunters to hunt should be the number 1 priority and the satisfaction of hunters wants should come first. Again what part of that don't you people understand? Hunters need animals to hunt and pay a fee to hunt these animals. PGC job is to provide these animals and are not doing a very good job of it.
What are elk for? I mean serious? Is everyone going to able to hunt these animals one day in PA? I don't think so. How many people actually care if we have elk in PA? If I can't hunt them what good are they? And there is no way everyone will be able to hunt them in the future without a raffle on them. If the so called deer herd can't survive with how many deer how is an animal 4 + the same size as deer that feed the same as deer going to survive in large numbers? It don't make sense with what is going on in our state.
So I see now its about if you cant kill it its a waste of time. Its all about me!. Hunters were the original conservationist and have always footed the bill for all wildlife. You may not like it but the PGC is tasked with taking care of all wildlife.
12-26-2008, 06:44 AM
#33
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
Sam,elk and deer do not eat the same thing in the same proportions.Elk are grazers and they're able to dig through deep snow to get to grasses.On top of that,How much money does the PGC actually spend on the elk and alot of these studies on non-game species?Much of that is funded by grants from nature conservancies and organizations like the RMEF and NWTF.I went out with the PGC last Feb to trap and tag turkeys for a gobbler mortality study.Almost everything the PGC used,was paid for by the NWTF.
12-26-2008, 06:48 AM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
Maybe a better question is why the PGC doesn't care as much about deer and the future of hunting as they do about trees and other wildlife? Why did they institute a plan that increased the B/D ratio and decreased breeding rates and productivity? Can you name one other species,managed by the PGC, where the goal is to cut the population by 50%, even though the habitat could support the present population?
12-26-2008, 07:08 AM
#35
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Washington County
Posts: 143
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
ORIGINAL: sammy_tat
Again hunting and trapping do not apply the same laws. Again if I am allowed to kill a trapped animal in my trap on sunday and am not allowed to hunt that same animal on sunday,that tells me that a trappedanimal is nothunting and the laws are different. You can't say that hunting and trapping is the same and go by the same laws. Would a trap animal fall under the catogory of fairchase also? I don't think that would be considered a fair chase while the animal can't run or hide. To shoot an animal in a trap would be illegal also then. Whats so fair about walking up to an animal in a trap and shooting it? But we have fairchase laws don't we?
Putting animals back in PA that became non existance should not been the priority. The animals that was left here was what the funds was for I would of thought. Do you think that if hunters knew that their money wasn't priority for the game they hunt that they would pay for a license? I don't think so. The money by hunters was for their animals and not for everything that wasn't here. How many would buy a license if it wasn't for their sport? Animals for hunters to hunt should be the number 1 priority and the satisfaction of hunters wants should come first. Again what part of that don't you people understand? Hunters need animals to hunt and pay a fee to hunt these animals. PGC job is to provide these animals and are not doing a very good job of it.
What are elk for? I mean serious? Is everyone going to able to hunt these animals one day in PA? I don't think so. How many people actually care if we have elk in PA? If I can't hunt them what good are they? And there is no way everyone will be able to hunt them in the future without a raffle on them. If the so called deer herd can't survive with how many deer how is an animal 4 + the same size as deer that feed the same as deer going to survive in large numbers? It don't make sense with what is going on in our state.
ORIGINAL: WCO R.W.J
Some money comes in from people that illegally use semi's on the trap line.
Timber and mineral rights alsobut the lion share comes from hunters but it doesnt change our mission that covers all wildlife. IF hunters no longer want to foot the bill for conservation the general fund will and we all know how well thats working out for bear hunters in NJ and bird hunters in NY.
Some money comes in from people that illegally use semi's on the trap line.
Timber and mineral rights alsobut the lion share comes from hunters but it doesnt change our mission that covers all wildlife. IF hunters no longer want to foot the bill for conservation the general fund will and we all know how well thats working out for bear hunters in NJ and bird hunters in NY.
Putting animals back in PA that became non existance should not been the priority. The animals that was left here was what the funds was for I would of thought. Do you think that if hunters knew that their money wasn't priority for the game they hunt that they would pay for a license? I don't think so. The money by hunters was for their animals and not for everything that wasn't here. How many would buy a license if it wasn't for their sport? Animals for hunters to hunt should be the number 1 priority and the satisfaction of hunters wants should come first. Again what part of that don't you people understand? Hunters need animals to hunt and pay a fee to hunt these animals. PGC job is to provide these animals and are not doing a very good job of it.
What are elk for? I mean serious? Is everyone going to able to hunt these animals one day in PA? I don't think so. How many people actually care if we have elk in PA? If I can't hunt them what good are they? And there is no way everyone will be able to hunt them in the future without a raffle on them. If the so called deer herd can't survive with how many deer how is an animal 4 + the same size as deer that feed the same as deer going to survive in large numbers? It don't make sense with what is going on in our state.
Sec. 102. Definitions.
"Hunt" or "hunting." Any act or furtherance of the taking or killing of any game or wildlife, or any part or product thereof, and includes, but is not limited to, chasing, tracking, calling, pursuing, lying in wait, trapping, shooting at, including shooting at a game or wildlife facsimile, or wounding with any weapon or implement, or using any personal property, including dogs, or the property of others, of any nature, in furtherance of any of these purposes, or aiding, abetting or conspiring with another person in that purpose.
"Take." To harass, pursue, hunt for, shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, possess or collect any game or wildlife, including shooting at a facsimile of game or wildlife or attempt to harass, pursue, hunt for, shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture or collect any game or wildlife or aiding, abetting or conspiring with another person in that purpose.
Sec. 2322. Prohibited devices and methods.
(a) General rule. - Except as otherwise provided in this title or commission regulation, no person shall hunt, kill or take or attempt, aid, abet, assist or conspire to hunt, kill or take any big game, except wild turkey, with any of the following devices or methods:
(2) Any automatic or semiautomatic firearm, except that any semiautomatic firearm modified to permit one shell in the chamber and no more than four shells in a magazine may be used by a person who suffered an amputation or lost the total use of one or both hands.
12-26-2008, 07:20 AM
#36
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
bb,as you know,deer are called a keystone species for a reason.They can single handedly alter the habitat in a negative way.We had too many deer for way too long and the habitat suffered as a result.That impacted almost every species that the PGC is responsible.Now we have less deer.Fortuantely,the hunting,even in the WMU with the lowest dd is still well above average.
The fact that they reduced the deer herd to improve the habitat is testimate to the fact that they care about the fuoture of both the deer andabout hunting.
The fact that they reduced the deer herd to improve the habitat is testimate to the fact that they care about the fuoture of both the deer andabout hunting.
12-26-2008, 10:02 AM
#37
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
"Are coydogs hybrid coyotes? "
BB, I dont believe they exist. Ive heard claims and little else. Some who have little knowledge of coyote hunting see or take coyotes that are odd color phases or whatever and make the claim. I also saw an animal killed that was posted on a predator hunting message board that was claimed to be a "coy dog" and it was the funniest thing I ever saw. It was obviously a mutt, possibly feral. Looked far more like a coon dog (long floppy ears and all! LOL)than any coyote Ive ever seen!
Guy who shot it was probably lucky he didnt take it to the farmers house where he was hunting to show it off. It wouldve possibly cost him HIS hide!
I also have read about a well known trapper who had a pet female yote. He said while his male dog attempted her onseveral occassions no litters were ever produced.
Doug, that crazy speak. The worst areas of Pa better than average hunting? Pure nonsense. The BEST areas of the state currently are subpar compared to any decent area of any decent State Ive ever hunted. Best areas of the state generally have "average" deer numbers comparatively and the quality isGROSSLY subpar across the huge majority of the state, except for possible sra.
Above average? Ha ha. Compared to New Jersey, or perhaps the sonoran desert! (LOL)[:'(]
BB, I dont believe they exist. Ive heard claims and little else. Some who have little knowledge of coyote hunting see or take coyotes that are odd color phases or whatever and make the claim. I also saw an animal killed that was posted on a predator hunting message board that was claimed to be a "coy dog" and it was the funniest thing I ever saw. It was obviously a mutt, possibly feral. Looked far more like a coon dog (long floppy ears and all! LOL)than any coyote Ive ever seen!
Guy who shot it was probably lucky he didnt take it to the farmers house where he was hunting to show it off. It wouldve possibly cost him HIS hide!I also have read about a well known trapper who had a pet female yote. He said while his male dog attempted her onseveral occassions no litters were ever produced.
Doug, that crazy speak. The worst areas of Pa better than average hunting? Pure nonsense. The BEST areas of the state currently are subpar compared to any decent area of any decent State Ive ever hunted. Best areas of the state generally have "average" deer numbers comparatively and the quality isGROSSLY subpar across the huge majority of the state, except for possible sra.
Above average? Ha ha. Compared to New Jersey, or perhaps the sonoran desert! (LOL)[:'(]
12-26-2008, 10:07 AM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
Now we have less deer.Fortuantely,the hunting,even in the WMU with the lowest dd is still well above average.
The fact that they reduced the deer herd to improve the habitat is testimate to the fact that they care about the fuoture of both the deer and about hunting.
12-26-2008, 10:10 AM
#39
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
"We had too many deer for way too long and the habitat suffered as a result."
Not in all areas. Far from it.
"The fact that they reduced the deer herd to improve the habitat is testimate to the fact that they care about the fuoture of both the deer andabout hunting."
The excessive nonsensical extent that theyve gone to proves they don't. When went far and above.... Go with carpet reduction for no reason in many areas... Lie continually... Belittle hunters.... unwilling to change anything.... Have horrible pr..... Side with audubon on just about every issue and every complaint they have with deer management yet ignore hunters...
Sorry, dont equal caring about HUNTING one bit. Many of us who are well aware of who the enviromentalist extremist clowns who also havestrong timber industry tiesthat sit on the boc...well lets just say weare not surprised in the least why things are as they are. Its quite self explantory.
Not in all areas. Far from it.
"The fact that they reduced the deer herd to improve the habitat is testimate to the fact that they care about the fuoture of both the deer andabout hunting."
The excessive nonsensical extent that theyve gone to proves they don't. When went far and above.... Go with carpet reduction for no reason in many areas... Lie continually... Belittle hunters.... unwilling to change anything.... Have horrible pr..... Side with audubon on just about every issue and every complaint they have with deer management yet ignore hunters...
Sorry, dont equal caring about HUNTING one bit. Many of us who are well aware of who the enviromentalist extremist clowns who also havestrong timber industry tiesthat sit on the boc...well lets just say weare not surprised in the least why things are as they are. Its quite self explantory.
12-26-2008, 01:48 PM
#40
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 179
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
If I know couple people that got BobCat tags and I caught couple BCs,I could call my friends up that have the tags and they could legally come down and shoot the catsin my traps since it is considered hunting and fair chase.
Again what is considered fair chase then? A animal that is trapped and held in one place is not fair chase for that animal once caught. That would be considered illegal then to kill under fair chase. Let me trap a deer and shot it.Fair chase I guess. I guess canned hunts in small 3 acre parcels would be considered fair chase and hunting also.
Again if it is hunting wht can't some animals trapped can't be hunted on sundays? Legal to trap and kill on sunday not legal to hunt on sunday.
Again what is considered fair chase then? A animal that is trapped and held in one place is not fair chase for that animal once caught. That would be considered illegal then to kill under fair chase. Let me trap a deer and shot it.Fair chase I guess. I guess canned hunts in small 3 acre parcels would be considered fair chase and hunting also.
Again if it is hunting wht can't some animals trapped can't be hunted on sundays? Legal to trap and kill on sunday not legal to hunt on sunday.