PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
12-24-2008, 10:46 AM
#21
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
"Staback is a clown.I attended a legislative hearing on the deer management issues a couple years ago.It was hosted by Dan Surra and Mike Hanna.Staback was the chairman of the house game and fisheries committe.The meeting was stacked with speakers that opposed the PGC and the deer management plan."
Oh, you mean like how the recent license fee hearing was stacked by the opposition ecofruitcakes? Or how the cacs get stacked by their very design and the fact it was designed with a rule where only TWO people can prevent herd increase even if 92 others want it (LOL)? Or how the board of commissioners is STACKED like a pile of rotten logs by the governors advisory committee, senate and an INTERVIEW WITH TIMBER DRIVEN DCNR!!!!? Oh I see....
"No one in favor was allowed to speak."
"I know that because people I'm aquainted with were denied the opportunityahead of time."
Glad to hear it. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. I seem to recall SEVERAL meetings through the years where "your groups" have taken part in closeddoor meetings and the public or even other groups had NO SAY. I also know of one pgc and ecoextremist driven website wheremajority hunter opinion is NOT WANTED and is highly screened and edited, with any dissenting views BANNED! No question asked.
This is a hunters issue. Not greenpeace, so cry me a river because you were ONCE on the recieving end!
"Anyway,someone asked whythe PGC was trapping deer in the Sproul state forest.Staback stood up allbent out of shape and wanted to know why the deer were being trapped and transferred out of the area.He wasn't even awareof the highly publicized doe mortality study that was under way,which was the reason for the deer being trapped.How could the Chairman of that committe be that out of touch? "
So? I dont imagine pgc informs him of every single in depth project they do the second they initiate it. And its not his job to know by sitting on that committee. That committee is part of a check and balance system designed to prevent corruption and hunter desires and rights frombeing foresaken for those of groups like eco-clowns. Right now, they are needed more than ever because that is EXACTLY what is going on. Correct me if Im wrong but no harm came from that lack of knowing, because Im certain if there was, you'd definately have pointed it out..
"These legislatures are totaly out of touch with reality and they don't knwo the first thing about wildlife management."
They dont have to to know crap when they smell it. When the reproductive data shows what it does, when the hunter numbers are declining at over double the national average! (IN HARDCORE HUNTING PA FOR KRIST SAKE!!) and when the "alliances" Pgc hold quite deer arent kept secret, but basically FLAUNTED, and when hunters are asking for pgc heads on sticks in record numbers with all time high dissatisfaction....
Well gosh darn those durn legislators for taking notice and taking action....Dang idiots. How dare they not allow pgc to do whatever the h*** they like and not pay them more to do it!
"I watched a hearing last year on PCN where the one legislator or senator was complaining about his property value decreasing in washington county because of antler restrictions.These people should have no say in wildlife management,which is exactly how the system was originally set up. "
He he he. Yeah, that dude was abit out there! He he. But that doesnt change the facts there are real, and severe problems with pgc and the deer plan. The legislatorswant to do something about it and I applaud them for it. BTW, they arent "taking over" management. They are trying to get responsible changes done. We have a past to compare to our present in many ways and we have several other states in this large nation to look for alternatives to our severely flawed plan.
Oh, you mean like how the recent license fee hearing was stacked by the opposition ecofruitcakes? Or how the cacs get stacked by their very design and the fact it was designed with a rule where only TWO people can prevent herd increase even if 92 others want it (LOL)? Or how the board of commissioners is STACKED like a pile of rotten logs by the governors advisory committee, senate and an INTERVIEW WITH TIMBER DRIVEN DCNR!!!!? Oh I see....
"No one in favor was allowed to speak."
"I know that because people I'm aquainted with were denied the opportunityahead of time."
Glad to hear it. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. I seem to recall SEVERAL meetings through the years where "your groups" have taken part in closeddoor meetings and the public or even other groups had NO SAY. I also know of one pgc and ecoextremist driven website wheremajority hunter opinion is NOT WANTED and is highly screened and edited, with any dissenting views BANNED! No question asked.
This is a hunters issue. Not greenpeace, so cry me a river because you were ONCE on the recieving end!
"Anyway,someone asked whythe PGC was trapping deer in the Sproul state forest.Staback stood up allbent out of shape and wanted to know why the deer were being trapped and transferred out of the area.He wasn't even awareof the highly publicized doe mortality study that was under way,which was the reason for the deer being trapped.How could the Chairman of that committe be that out of touch? "
So? I dont imagine pgc informs him of every single in depth project they do the second they initiate it. And its not his job to know by sitting on that committee. That committee is part of a check and balance system designed to prevent corruption and hunter desires and rights frombeing foresaken for those of groups like eco-clowns. Right now, they are needed more than ever because that is EXACTLY what is going on. Correct me if Im wrong but no harm came from that lack of knowing, because Im certain if there was, you'd definately have pointed it out..
"These legislatures are totaly out of touch with reality and they don't knwo the first thing about wildlife management."
They dont have to to know crap when they smell it. When the reproductive data shows what it does, when the hunter numbers are declining at over double the national average! (IN HARDCORE HUNTING PA FOR KRIST SAKE!!) and when the "alliances" Pgc hold quite deer arent kept secret, but basically FLAUNTED, and when hunters are asking for pgc heads on sticks in record numbers with all time high dissatisfaction....
Well gosh darn those durn legislators for taking notice and taking action....Dang idiots. How dare they not allow pgc to do whatever the h*** they like and not pay them more to do it!
"I watched a hearing last year on PCN where the one legislator or senator was complaining about his property value decreasing in washington county because of antler restrictions.These people should have no say in wildlife management,which is exactly how the system was originally set up. "
He he he. Yeah, that dude was abit out there! He he. But that doesnt change the facts there are real, and severe problems with pgc and the deer plan. The legislatorswant to do something about it and I applaud them for it. BTW, they arent "taking over" management. They are trying to get responsible changes done. We have a past to compare to our present in many ways and we have several other states in this large nation to look for alternatives to our severely flawed plan.
12-24-2008, 12:51 PM
#22
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 227
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
With the overhaul of the Right-to-Know-Law, taking effect Jan. 1, which will repeal the 52 year old original (long regarded as one of the nation's weakest), will this have much affect on the PGC withholding information from the public.
12-24-2008, 06:21 PM
#23
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Posts: 2,978
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
Dont know about that, but do know that pgc being an "independent" agency has allowed them a really long leash and has helped them circumvent any accountability for their actions. I dont believe the circumstances you speak of will change a thing.
Only thing that will get answers and "secret" data out in the open will be a court case, or legislators squeezing their piggy bank.
Only thing that will get answers and "secret" data out in the open will be a court case, or legislators squeezing their piggy bank.
12-25-2008, 10:10 AM
#24
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08
"Lets see.... every respected wildlife professional has done nothing but support the deer program."
Really? Unbiased people other than those who have actually put the plan into place? Nope sorry. Notone person on this planethas analyzed pgcs doe tag allocation and herd goals and deemed themexactly what we must have. Hasnt been done and noone would do such an extensive undertaking without being well paid to do so.THAT wasone reason the audit was ordered. An independent agency that has done whatever they like, catered to whomever they wish andanswer tonoone. Don't even try to equate reviews of stupid little details like harvesting report system etc. to thorough reviews of this deer sham plan!
"most sportsmen are happy with the results of AR while some are understandably questioning HR "
I agree. Nearly noone like hr, the extremes it has gone to for no good reasons in many areas. Especially since its based on nearly absolutely nothing.
"One lunatic fringe splinter group is suing them in between chasing ghost cougars."
Fine by me, but doesnt change the importantfacts of the matter. USP can go straight to h*** for all I care. But don'ttry to use them as an excuse to disregard real concerns and real issues involving our deer sham program.
"Seems to me the PGC has nothing much to worry about from an audit unless someone's taking home the paper clips"
Then they should grow a set, quit balling like babes, and act like a responsible wildlife management agency just like most of the others in this nation. That means responsible management practices and no "hiding" pertinent data etc. There is absolutely no reason to withhold information concerning our wildlife and wildlife management. NONE. THere is no excuse for it and its totally unacceptable. One way or another, I believe they are about to find that out even if nothing else is solved.
"Lets see.... every respected wildlife professional has done nothing but support the deer program."
Really? Unbiased people other than those who have actually put the plan into place? Nope sorry. Notone person on this planethas analyzed pgcs doe tag allocation and herd goals and deemed themexactly what we must have. Hasnt been done and noone would do such an extensive undertaking without being well paid to do so.THAT wasone reason the audit was ordered. An independent agency that has done whatever they like, catered to whomever they wish andanswer tonoone. Don't even try to equate reviews of stupid little details like harvesting report system etc. to thorough reviews of this deer sham plan!
"most sportsmen are happy with the results of AR while some are understandably questioning HR "
I agree. Nearly noone like hr, the extremes it has gone to for no good reasons in many areas. Especially since its based on nearly absolutely nothing.
"One lunatic fringe splinter group is suing them in between chasing ghost cougars."
Fine by me, but doesnt change the importantfacts of the matter. USP can go straight to h*** for all I care. But don'ttry to use them as an excuse to disregard real concerns and real issues involving our deer sham program.
"Seems to me the PGC has nothing much to worry about from an audit unless someone's taking home the paper clips"
Then they should grow a set, quit balling like babes, and act like a responsible wildlife management agency just like most of the others in this nation. That means responsible management practices and no "hiding" pertinent data etc. There is absolutely no reason to withhold information concerning our wildlife and wildlife management. NONE. THere is no excuse for it and its totally unacceptable. One way or another, I believe they are about to find that out even if nothing else is solved.
from talking to USP, i am life member.
they ARE NOT going to stop coming after the PGC unless they start taking care of our deer hunting.
did you know the PGC hired 4 wind biologists, not 1 deer biologiist.
does anyone know why they needed to use 300,000 dollars of our money for WIND STUDY.
maybe someone can answer that.
did you know the PGC may take in 25/50 /100 million on their GAS LEASES.
who knows how much they will get,but talk is its A LOT.
i hope ALL that money goes for deer/pheasants and not for more studys on owl,fishers,hawks,fox,coyotes,bobcats,birdwatchers ,treehuggers
12-25-2008, 10:26 AM
#25
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Washington County
Posts: 143
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
What part of "responsible for all wildlife" dont you understand?
Typical USP garbage, Wind Biologist...lol I'll add that to deer pawing trees and hybird coyotes...lol
What classes does one take to be a wind biologist?
Typical USP garbage, Wind Biologist...lol I'll add that to deer pawing trees and hybird coyotes...lol
What classes does one take to be a wind biologist?
12-25-2008, 11:02 AM
#26
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
ORIGINAL: WCO R.W.J
What part of "responsible for all wildlife" dont you understand?
Typical USP garbage, Wind Biologist...lol I'll add that to deer pawing trees and hybird coyotes...lol
What classes does one take to be a wind biologist?
What part of "responsible for all wildlife" dont you understand?
Typical USP garbage, Wind Biologist...lol I'll add that to deer pawing trees and hybird coyotes...lol
What classes does one take to be a wind biologist?
see if you can find out if thats true and why they would want a study of that and hire 4 experts at 300,000.
if not TRUE, i will report that on here.
12-25-2008, 06:18 PM
#27
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 179
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
ORIGINAL: WCO R.W.J
What part of "responsible for all wildlife" dont you understand?
Typical USP garbage, Wind Biologist...lol I'll add that to deer pawing trees and hybird coyotes...lol
What classes does one take to be a wind biologist?
What part of "responsible for all wildlife" dont you understand?
Typical USP garbage, Wind Biologist...lol I'll add that to deer pawing trees and hybird coyotes...lol
What classes does one take to be a wind biologist?
Where the hell do you think they get the money for these animals? Heres a hint,hunters. Without hunters you got no money to help any wildlife unless you start a wildlife protection service as PETA. And from the last come join and watch the wild birds that the PGC advertised for the antis,sure looks like that is where the PGC is headed. You better have some main stock for hunters to hunt. Deer was the number one money maker for the PGC. It is time to get rid of the PGC and bring in another agency like USP who are looking out for our animals for future hunts.
How hard is it for people to understand and see where the PGC is going? They are going anti on the hunters.
12-25-2008, 06:40 PM
#29
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
ORIGINAL: sammy_tat
What part of wheres your money coming from don't you people understand?
Where the hell do you think they get the money for these animals? Heres a hint,hunters. Without hunters you got no money to help any wildlife unless you start a wildlife protection service as PETA. And from the last come join and watch the wild birds that the PGC advertised for the antis,sure looks like that is where the PGC is headed. You better have some main stock for hunters to hunt. Deer was the number one money maker for the PGC. It is time to get rid of the PGC and bring in another agency like USP who are looking out for our animals for future hunts.
How hard is it for people to understand and see where the PGC is going? They are going anti on the hunters.
ORIGINAL: WCO R.W.J
What part of "responsible for all wildlife" dont you understand?
Typical USP garbage, Wind Biologist...lol I'll add that to deer pawing trees and hybird coyotes...lol
What classes does one take to be a wind biologist?
What part of "responsible for all wildlife" dont you understand?
Typical USP garbage, Wind Biologist...lol I'll add that to deer pawing trees and hybird coyotes...lol
What classes does one take to be a wind biologist?
Where the hell do you think they get the money for these animals? Heres a hint,hunters. Without hunters you got no money to help any wildlife unless you start a wildlife protection service as PETA. And from the last come join and watch the wild birds that the PGC advertised for the antis,sure looks like that is where the PGC is headed. You better have some main stock for hunters to hunt. Deer was the number one money maker for the PGC. It is time to get rid of the PGC and bring in another agency like USP who are looking out for our animals for future hunts.
How hard is it for people to understand and see where the PGC is going? They are going anti on the hunters.
no doubt money is coming from someone other than us too for this study on WIND .
no doubt we are in battle of our lives on deer situation.
12-25-2008, 09:26 PM
#30
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Washington County
Posts: 143
RE: PA GAME COMMISSION TRYING TO AVOID AUDIT?
Some money comes in from people that illegally use semi's on the trap line.
Timber and mineral rights alsobut the lion share comes from hunters but it doesnt change our mission that covers all wildlife. IF hunters no longer want to foot the bill for conservation the general fund will and we all know how well thats working out for bear hunters in NJ and bird hunters in NY.
Timber and mineral rights alsobut the lion share comes from hunters but it doesnt change our mission that covers all wildlife. IF hunters no longer want to foot the bill for conservation the general fund will and we all know how well thats working out for bear hunters in NJ and bird hunters in NY.