WillCz

Pleasing the drastically shrinking number of customers seems to be a problem lately.

The only mismanagement in 4c prior to 2000 was having no AR and allowing the doe population to be out of wack. A thinning of the doe herd by 25% would have solved the problem. I think you don't understand the land in this area and the pressure that public land gets.

Laws can be changed in an emergency situation.

DougE

Sure it's a problem.Not many people want to see less deer but very few understand why it's necessary.

DougE

Since the Game lands were purchased in part with P-R monies,it would take a federal law to be changed which would never happen.

bawanajim

Do you feel that the larger sizes of the management unit hinders in any way the ability to manage some areas where deer numbers vary widely?

I have grouse hunted areas that show little or any sign of deer.Cover was good to excellent but deer were absent.

WillCz

Deer management does not mean to take 20,000 acres of public land and reduce the herd to under 5 DPM. My estimate only of course.

I love what has happened to the antlered herd until the past 2 years. I have shot 3 of the biggest bucks ever under the new program. Now there are no more button/spike bucks to grow old. My only hope is that enough people will quit the sport and the herd will rebuild itself.

DougE

Will,no offense but there is no wayfor an individual to estimate the deer population on 20000 acres.I'll have to look the stats up but I believe hunters are killing more than 5 dpsm in 4C.I live in 2G where the deer herds are the lowest and most of the complaints are coming from.We have some of the worst habitat in the state and some of the lowest deer densities as a result.In 2005,The FLIR showed some of the most heavily overbrowsed areas of 2G at around 9-10 dpsm but none where anywhere near 5 dpsm.You won't convince me 4C has anywhere near 5 dpsm.

bawanajim,there simply isn't the resources or the data to suggest going to smaller wmu's.Specifically,how would that make a differance?I can show you areas in 2G that have virtually no deer at all right now but there will be deer there in the fall.

DougE

I've yet to see areas with excellent habitat and few deer.In fact,I'd love for someone to show me such a place.

PA Screaming Eagle

I couldn't stay out of this one, In Crawford county we used to have a lot of deer. Maybe just a few to many, but we have a TON of great habitat here. Many years Crawford was close to the top in deer harvest 10 years ago. Tell me how I can get a youngster interested if I can spot 20 acres of Alf-alfa and soybeans and see 2 deer. Now all we have is old people shooting 4 points and calling their kids/grandkids because they finally saw a deer and shot it. I am a very avid deer hunter, I have access to many hundreds of acres of private land, some close to state lands. In all of archery and rifle I saw ZERO legal bucks. I would say I spent around 100 hours hunting. Though its private most isn't posted because it is owned by farmers. How are the antler restrictions supposed to work when a healthy 1-1/2 year old buck around here with good genetics is usually a 7 or 8 pointer and gets shot right away. But the 4 point might make it through. So they get the good genetic bucks shot right away. The only way to get big bucks around here would be 5 pts a side and no juniors having daddy and grandpa shooting them. Then maybe they could make it to 2-1/2 years old.
All I know is my cousin went for the first time ever last season, the weather was bad enough but not seeing any deer. They are sure making things great.[:@]

the outsider

Look into my eyes PA Screaming Eagle, you are getting sleepy.......very sleepy. Now I want you to believe in the statistical fairytale that the PGC is spinning.

germain

I could show you plenty of places down here Doug.