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No, it's just not happening
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Are the PA junior hunter antler restrictions being abused by adults?
01-17-2008, 03:24 PM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Are the PA junior hunter antler restrictions being abused by adults?
I do have another idea that might sit well (or at least better) with both sides on this issue. For the kids under 12 that currently need no license under the mentored program, issue them a license for free. That way they can be counted and their harvest reported. When anyone under the age of 18 gets their first license, they get one or two special youth buck tags good any in year up till a senior license is required, that allow any buck with 3" of antler. That tag then must be used WITH the regular tag to make that smaller buck legal. Once the kid has one or two under his belt using those special tags, he's now huntingunder the adult rules. What it would do, is let each youth hunter take a couple of easier bucks before having to play by the big boy rules.
Just an idea... could it work?
Just an idea... could it work?
01-17-2008, 05:27 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Southeast PA
Posts: 1,490
RE: Are the PA junior hunter antler restrictions being abused by adults?
I would also agree that criminals will always find a away to skirt the law. So allowing youth hunters more opportunities in the woods out weighs the cons in my eyes.
I like the two sub-AR tag idea, although I don't really have a problem with any kid shooting whatever size Buck he or she wants to!
I like the two sub-AR tag idea, although I don't really have a problem with any kid shooting whatever size Buck he or she wants to!
01-18-2008, 02:16 AM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: manassas va USA
Posts: 614
RE: Are the PA junior hunter antler restrictions being abused by adults?
ORIGINAL: White-tail-deer
I would also agree that criminals will always find a away to skirt the law. So allowing youth hunters more opportunities in the woods out weighs the cons in my eyes.
I like the two sub-AR tag idea, although I don't really have a problem with any kid shooting whatever size Buck he or she wants to!
I would also agree that criminals will always find a away to skirt the law. So allowing youth hunters more opportunities in the woods out weighs the cons in my eyes.
I like the two sub-AR tag idea, although I don't really have a problem with any kid shooting whatever size Buck he or she wants to!
01-27-2008, 10:56 AM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Are the PA junior hunter antler restrictions being abused by adults?
To those who think it's a widespread problem. What are you basing your response on? Just curious as to the basis for that opinion. Have you actually seen a case? Morethan one perhaps?What were the circumstances? If you did see it happen, did you report it?
If it's happening, it's not showing up as a common violation on PGC records.
If it's happening, it's not showing up as a common violation on PGC records.
01-27-2008, 02:49 PM
#16
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Are the PA junior hunter antler restrictions being abused by adults?
ORIGINAL: germain
saw it and reported it.
saw it and reported it.
One time thing or repeated situations?
01-27-2008, 05:37 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,149
RE: Are the PA junior hunter antler restrictions being abused by adults?
There's a couple of groups up there BT that continue to break laws.We've reported poaching,baiting,and illegal use of tags.
Overall I think abuse of the junior tags is isolated but does happen.However I'd be against changing the program because of a few slobs.The real hunters shouldn't be punished because of their actions.
Overall I think abuse of the junior tags is isolated but does happen.However I'd be against changing the program because of a few slobs.The real hunters shouldn't be punished because of their actions.
01-28-2008, 11:46 AM
#18
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 321
RE: Are the PA junior hunter antler restrictions being abused by adults?
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
OK here we go...
I really didnt want to start this thread, but I'm starting it in the hope that this topic will stay here and that it will stop the hijacking of countless other threads so one member can get onthe soapbox again.
The theory is that adults are swiping their kids tags so that they can shoot little bucks and get past the antler restrictions. Just like the guy who buys his wife a license so he can tag multiple bucks, I'm sure it happens but am convinced that it cant be a significant problem.
Scenario one:
Imagine having your son or daughter out hunting and a small buck comes by and shooting it instead of letting the kid shoot it and then asking the kid to tag it. How many believ there are a large numebr of parents out there who would do that?
Scenario two:
OK, the kid doesnt care, doesnt want to hunt so dad buys him a license anyway and drags him out so he can shoot his deer for him. Any father who has had his child hunting knows that it's challenge enough to keep a young hunter still, warm and comfortable and patient enough when they want to hunt. It's hard to imagine sitting on a deer stand with a kid who doesnt want to be there so dad can shoot the kids buck for him.
Scenario Three:
The kid never sees the woods. dad simply takes the extra tag with him and puts it on the small buck. This one makes no sense either. The penalty for getting caught with somenone else tag on your deer or using the license of another is far more severe than the $25 for the mistake shooting of a small buck. It's also far worse to use the tag of another than simply not tagging the buck. For those that are so inclined, it would make more sense to simply shoot the deer and take their chances getting it out and getting it home. We all know that the chance of being checked on any given hunting day are slim to none.
Do some abuse the AR's? Sure they do. Do some use the kid rule to do so? Probably. Does it even make sense that this would be a widespread problem. NO
In a world where we are replacing every 100 hunters who dies or gets too old to hunt with only 69 new hunters, we need to continue to do everything we can to bring our youth into the sport. The new mentored youth program has been a big success with no safety problems. Statistics show that the total sub A bucks killed by juniors is insignificant.
LEAVE THE KIDS ALONE!
this is what it's all about......
OK here we go...
I really didnt want to start this thread, but I'm starting it in the hope that this topic will stay here and that it will stop the hijacking of countless other threads so one member can get onthe soapbox again.
The theory is that adults are swiping their kids tags so that they can shoot little bucks and get past the antler restrictions. Just like the guy who buys his wife a license so he can tag multiple bucks, I'm sure it happens but am convinced that it cant be a significant problem.
Scenario one:
Imagine having your son or daughter out hunting and a small buck comes by and shooting it instead of letting the kid shoot it and then asking the kid to tag it. How many believ there are a large numebr of parents out there who would do that?
Scenario two:
OK, the kid doesnt care, doesnt want to hunt so dad buys him a license anyway and drags him out so he can shoot his deer for him. Any father who has had his child hunting knows that it's challenge enough to keep a young hunter still, warm and comfortable and patient enough when they want to hunt. It's hard to imagine sitting on a deer stand with a kid who doesnt want to be there so dad can shoot the kids buck for him.
Scenario Three:
The kid never sees the woods. dad simply takes the extra tag with him and puts it on the small buck. This one makes no sense either. The penalty for getting caught with somenone else tag on your deer or using the license of another is far more severe than the $25 for the mistake shooting of a small buck. It's also far worse to use the tag of another than simply not tagging the buck. For those that are so inclined, it would make more sense to simply shoot the deer and take their chances getting it out and getting it home. We all know that the chance of being checked on any given hunting day are slim to none.
Do some abuse the AR's? Sure they do. Do some use the kid rule to do so? Probably. Does it even make sense that this would be a widespread problem. NO
In a world where we are replacing every 100 hunters who dies or gets too old to hunt with only 69 new hunters, we need to continue to do everything we can to bring our youth into the sport. The new mentored youth program has been a big success with no safety problems. Statistics show that the total sub A bucks killed by juniors is insignificant.
LEAVE THE KIDS ALONE!
this is what it's all about......
I don't believe that a honest hunter would do that. BUT - since you are talking about an ILLEGAL activity - then you have to account for what you just asked.
A person that is going out - just for the meat and bragging rights - to say - I got this many bucks this year. The PGC just made it easier for that person to go out and have a kid - that isn't old enough to hunt. But is old enought to recruit into going along - where you can say that Junior shot this spike buck or junior did this or that - and I let him use my tag.
I seen it go on ever since the antler restrictions came into effect. It's like giving them a license to steal. The illegal hunter goes into the woods, asks you - did you see anything. You say just a little buck, a couple of minutes later you hear a bang and they are dragging it out.
Or dad and uncle so and so goes up on the hill and shoots and says that they didn't get anything and then when school is out - they go up on the hill and tag the deer that dad shot early in the morning and laugh all the way home.
I'm not going to do that, since I don't think that it is fair to the people that actually paid their dues to shoot a legal deer - to steal from the honest people - just so I could brag that I shot a buck.
While you are counting in dishonest people - one of the guys that I knew that did it this year was a retired state policeman. What does that tell you? That he has no fear of getting caught or in trouble because of his previous occupation.
01-28-2008, 03:55 PM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Are the PA junior hunter antler restrictions being abused by adults?
I will agree that the Junior regulations may have provided an avenue for the slimeballs to further abuse the law they have no regard for anyway.
Istarted this thread specifically because one member here has hijacked several threads (even other states threads) to rant incessantly that all the bucks were being taken out this way. He interrupted thread after thread telling us how ALL the bucks were getting killed off this way.That particular member has been silent since this thread started. Some of you have seen it happen. A third of the poll respondents indicate they think it's substantial and I'll admit that surprises me.On the other hand, two thirds don't think it's a problem. Obviously I voted on that side.
I dont disagree that it happens. I personally havent seen it but enough of you have responded that you've seen it happen to make one take notice.I think that this is one of the lowest of lows even a poacher can stoop to but I guess there is no limit to what some sleaseballs will do.
The photo in my original post happens to be a 14 year old. That was the first buck in three years of hunting that gave him a clear ethical shot. The look on his face makes it all worth it in my opinion.
My suggestion is that each kid gets two special undated tags to use on a sub AR buck when he first buys a license. For the kids under 12 under the new mentored youth program that currently doesnt need a license, he gets a free license for the asking. Those two special tags are all the kid gets no matter how old he is when he starts Once the kid has shot two small bucks,it's time to hunt with the big boys and abide by adult rules.
Istarted this thread specifically because one member here has hijacked several threads (even other states threads) to rant incessantly that all the bucks were being taken out this way. He interrupted thread after thread telling us how ALL the bucks were getting killed off this way.That particular member has been silent since this thread started. Some of you have seen it happen. A third of the poll respondents indicate they think it's substantial and I'll admit that surprises me.On the other hand, two thirds don't think it's a problem. Obviously I voted on that side.
I dont disagree that it happens. I personally havent seen it but enough of you have responded that you've seen it happen to make one take notice.I think that this is one of the lowest of lows even a poacher can stoop to but I guess there is no limit to what some sleaseballs will do.
The photo in my original post happens to be a 14 year old. That was the first buck in three years of hunting that gave him a clear ethical shot. The look on his face makes it all worth it in my opinion.
My suggestion is that each kid gets two special undated tags to use on a sub AR buck when he first buys a license. For the kids under 12 under the new mentored youth program that currently doesnt need a license, he gets a free license for the asking. Those two special tags are all the kid gets no matter how old he is when he starts Once the kid has shot two small bucks,it's time to hunt with the big boys and abide by adult rules.