germain

Hold the phone there BT.This topic isn't closed yet.
I know one thing,the deer around our camp are being killed by hunters.As for these collared deer I still have questions.
First of all that area has alot less hunters then it did in the past.Back in say the 80's I'll bet there was more then triple the amount of hunters there are today.Maybe somebody on here can answer that familar with the area.If this is true at that time a higher percentage of deer would have been killed by hunters especially during the first couple of years of brown it's down.In some of the more remote places I'm seeing few hunters anymore so of coarse the percentage of deer kills will go down.Now that brings back the question of why the herd in those remote regions isn't growing in leaps and bounds.Since everybody else has a theory including the dcnr,here's mine.
In the 80's there were alot more deer hunters in the NC including the remote areas.I know because I hunted them.During the first couple of years of massive herd reduction the deer numbers dropped drastically.{don't deny this doug}So you still have the predators with alot less dinnerfare running around the woods.The few deer that are left are hunted harder and have more stress put on them especially in winter when they don't need that.Hence the low deer numbers.
That's my theory until somebody shows me otherwise.Now let's go to the habitat.It sucked over 20 years ago when I hunted potter and clearfield.Lot's of wide open woods where a fellow could see forever and see all these doe and small bucks everybody talks about.We figured it out though and hunted in thick stuff with treestands and 50 yard shots at the most.{rifle}Got some dandy bucks.Those deer numbers existed throughout the 70's into the 90's up to herd reduction.So I'm supposed to believe the habitat crashed the same time herd reduction started?Hmmm.
We had some terrible winters back then including the infamous snow/ice storms that killed alot of deer just from sliding down the mountains.Yet the years following that winter I still saw the high numbers people talk about.Those woods in potter county have been open for a long long time and the deer stayed high in numbers for many years.Anyone interested the area is around patterson on rte 44.I just have questions because of what my own eyes have witnessed throughout the years.To be honest I hope in the end I find out I'm wrong and everything audubon,greenpeace,and the DCNR is telling us is the truth because my trust in government right now is low anyway.Right now I can't trust debernliberal after checking his profile and history.Left wingers make me nervous.

germain

Having said all that I do think the populations in the NC were too high back then and I don't want a deer behind every tree.Truth is it seems 20-25 dpsm makes for fun hunting.

sproulman

i dont know nothing about collars on deer..lets talk about that area..there is big crew in camp i known all my life innthat area..

they told me they will not and DONT WANT ANYONE ELSE killing doe in that area..

has this caused those deer not to be shot, yes..

they tell hunters in their crew to go elsewhere to kill a doe..elsewhere is where i hunt,so my doe are being wiped out..they are not stupid enough to kill off all their doe..

next. do hunters turn in their kill reports?could be same with collars..

does hunter leave deer go if it is wearing collar,i bet so..

does hunter want easier area to kill a DOE,yes..

all this could be reason, i dont know ..i would bet that most throw collar away for some reason..that would be my first thought..

sproulman

from what i understand that area covered 30 miles,renovo to snowshoe,correct me if i am wrong..

how many deer did they tag?this is all new to me,first time i heard it..

livbucks

Doug, you're off base here. Horses are grazers. Grass and clover have very little nutritional value to a horse and a horse will graze continously until all these grasses are gone. You can put a horse out in a big enough field that it cannot decimate, feed it nothing else, and it will starve to death while eating continuously. A couple cups of grain and a 10" leaf of Timothy hay a day on the other hand, will make a horse fat even if it never grazed outside again. They eat it out of boredom, but get little out of it. Deer are browsers. They don't eat continuously like a horse, because they don't eat the same things as a horse. Deer also chew cud, to get every drop of nutrients out of every mouthful. Horses don't. Horses have an extremely fast digestive flow, they don't chew their cud, and they actually waste huge amounts of nutrients in the food they eat. Ever think about that when you clean a stall? Could you imagine if deer had that volume of waste? They crap hard little pellets. They extract every bit of energy out of what they eat, and require FAR FAR less feed per pound of body weight as compared to a horse.
You are comparing tiny little apples to big jumbo oranges here.
My family has horses...I know this.
I know that there are far more deer than horses, yet nobody hauls deer manure to fertilize their gardens. WHY IS THAT?

germain

clovers are actually pretty high in protein depending what type it is.

BTBowhunter

OK, fair enough Sproul. Lets assume for sake of the arguement for a moment that all hunters in the area are letting does walk. Why then. arent the deer repopulating? the whole point DougE brought up was that something else other than hunter pressure is at work here!

livbucks

The volume of it available in two acresfor two horses is next to nothing. He was comparing glutton horses to deer, which is not a fair comparison of impact on the environment. That is my point. Deer would eat far less of the clover and get far more nutritional value from it without decimating it as the horses would. A horse will eat grass and clover continuously until it is down to the bare dirt. Grazers eat continuously all the time.

germain

agree liv.In our area I noticed the deer seem to use the clover as a mid-day snack or a chew on the way to acorns or another food source.Rape and turnips seem to be a different story becoming the main dinner fare.That seems to be the case for us.

germain

BT,what's your opinion on my post?Also I'm surprised nobody is concerned with greenpeace being involved in forest certification.Does everybody know they are an extreme animal rights group which I think was put on the government's list as a terrorist organization.