Crazy Horse RVN

WW7 it's really very basic. Management of the deer herd as well as all else concerned with gamethe PGC'sexpress responsibility. Management of the herd does not fall into the realm of the hunter. Game Lands should not be barren lands. In far too many cases Game Lands are barren. That is a management fault. Hunters can only kill as many deer as the agency permits.
Yes, we hunters pull the trigger, but only by direction of the PGC in their regulations and their issuance of antlerless permits. If the agency were to issue permits in what one might consider excess for bucks and hunters slaughtered every last buck in the commonwealth it would be the fault/responsibility of the agency for allowing such a thing to happen.

The PGC cannot escape their responsibilities. There liesthe reasonbehind and the driving force ofthe USP law suit.

DougE

Crazy horse,I'm not threatened or afraid of anyone in the USP.I actually talked with Wayne Haas(sp) til about 10:30pm one night after a meeting in Dubois that he attended two years ago.The meeting was an embarrasment but I even posted on a few message boards that Wayne didn't seem to be too radical at the time.His message at the meeting sounded sympathetic to a certain degree towards the PGC.Ididn't agree with him all all accounts but he seemed OK.

BTBowhunter

Prior to AR that's exactly what was happening. The PGC had two options according to Gary Alt: Start limiting buck tags or adopt antler restrictions.
They chose antler restrictions.

DougE

They do cut the trees on the game lands around here.They don't cuttoo many,as that would create more problems in the future but the habitat on our game lands is much better than most of the private land.

I want to retract my statement about no collared deer being killed in the Sproul.One was killed in the early muzzleloader season and at least three were killed during the first few days of rifle season.The final results aren't out yet but that's still an extremely smallpercentage of deer being taken by hunters.

BTBowhunter

Actually the PGC does cut 1% of the timberable property yearly on average. Wetlands, food plots, roads, steep slpoes etc make up the rest of the property that cant be timbered.

the USP has been furnished this information but chooses to ignore it. Once again supporting the old saying: figures don't lie but liars can figure.

Think about it.The PGC is financially strapped. It makes absolutely no sense to not cut trees. To those who constantly cry that it's all about the money, what possible rational reason could the PGC have for not selling all the timber allowed.

sproulman

douge,first, as saidby someone, everytime you get on here you go PERSONEL ATTACKS..iwas hoping you have changed, but i guess not..

doug, i could have bought 5 tags or as you said ,YOU GOT 5 DEER THIS YEAR, I BELIEVE YOU SAID..

could i have filled them..YOU BET OLE SPROUL COULD KILL 5..i can kill ,if i wanted too but that would be INSANE..does that mean there are LOTS of deer as you want people to believe?hunters that want to kill 5 deer ARE going to say there are deer..

i am SPORTSMAN,i want to see deer for future..i dont kill fawns or doe ..i used to kill doe over 10 years ago but always OLD DOE..

am i mad at hunters like you that kill 5 deer and others never see one..YES,if i had my way, this maddness would stop..

sadly, most of hunters i saw this year are only interested in FILLING tags,even going as far as killing the little fawns..

i saw 2 little fawns in back of pick-up by a crew i know.. big men they were,they had those fawns thrown over rear tire like a piece of garbage..

so douge, you are not alone on your thinking ,i would say you outnumber us sportsman ,i am seeing that too..

when i see person getting 3 deer or 5 deer, its only 1 reason,meat /filling tags..sportsman would be happy with 1 deer knowing that our fellow hunters, some did not even see a deer.

oh, i forgot, you will most likely say..I SAW LOTS OF DEER..thats kinda like saying,YOU OTHER HUNTERS DONT KNOW HOW TO HUNT..

DougE

Well Sproul,it should make you happy that I don't shoot fawns.I only shoot mature does and try to make sure the bucks are at least 2.5 years old.I shoot mature does because I see the need to reduce the herd and it isn't worth my time to process a fawn and get 15 lbs of meat.It's all individual perspective on what loads of deer are.I did see plenty though.The most I saw in one day was 17 and that was on the first day of bear.I had a few deer less days but that's because the weather was terrible or my time was very limited that day.prior to archery season,I saw alot more deer than usual when spotting.Most days that I went out with the intentions of killing a deer,I did so and it wasn't that hard.I saw plenty of deer but saw next to no hunters.The deer I killed didn't even come close to reducing the population.Every place I shot a deer,the habitat was either lousy or just starting to come back.It makes no sense to add more deer to that situation.I'm not saying hunters are poor hunters.The one'sI know that put in a reasonable effort,still see a lot of deer and they're successful.The ones that give up too easily or hunt from their trucks aren't going to see many deer.I killed a doe on the last day of the early muzzleloader season on public land.I had two buddies that were gonna drive a clearcut for me at 9:00am but I killed a deer before they got there.When they found my truck,there was a guy and his kid getting back in their vehicle at about 8:30am.The father was complaining over and over to my two buddies about there not being any deer in that area.It's funny how they could come to that conclusion after being in the woods for less than 2 hours.I went to that same spot on the last friday afternoonof rifle season.I walked for quite a ways looking for sign and only cut 2 sets of tracks.The next day,I parked in the same spot and took a buddy of mine on the other side of the road.No one was in the woods except us so no deer were moving.I did several small one man drives to him and by the end of the day we both saw over a dozen deer and I killed one.There were deer all over in there and we didn't see another hunter until about 3:00pm when 3 guys showed up and sat together.I'd say we saw about 15 deer between the two of us in a relatively small area but many snuck around or between us that was evidenced by their tracks and beds.Had there not been fresh snow,we wouldn't seen any of that sign and probably only a fraction of the deer.It would have been easy to say there weren't any deer in there but there was abunch and no one wasin there hunting them.It was the same story the saturday before.

I've been seeing and killing plenty of deer since long before Gary Alt came into the picture.While I do see less than I did 10 years ago,I still see alot.I see no reason to complain.

You say you could have killed 5 deer this yourself but not long ago you were saying that you only saw 4 since this past summer.Which is it?

germain

Doug,they can't kill all those collared deer,there's gotta be a few left to breed as does any area.I'm wondering if anybody would have info on the estimated percentage of deer killed in doe season?Whether it be back in the 80,s or now we could compare it to the present collared study to get an idea how many are actually killed in this area by hunters on the average.

DougE

Rich,you have to kill over 30% of the doe each year just to keep it stable.When hunters are only killing 8%(the amount killed last year)or lower of the collared doe,it's reasonable to conclude that the hunters aren't the ones reducing the herd.

sproulman

DOUGE,i did not see many deer here on publicland this fall hunting small game..if i know there is 3 deer left in area, i could kill all 3 ,rest assured of that..

i am not that type of hunter..

1 deer is enough..and for long time it has to be buck..no doe..

douge, no disrespect like you give me,but killing 5 deer like you did is something i would not be proud of..i certainly would not tell anyone..

how about passing on doe next year so we all can enjoy hunting in future..