Windwalker7

I see a few of the posters on here talking about the bucks they are seeing and taking. They look at others as in experienced, cry babys un able to take a deer unless there is a deer " behind every tree".


They go on, in an almost braggard tone, on how we should scout more and learn more about deer.


Yet these same individuals seldom reply about Forrest Certification and if they feel this is the real reason the PGC wants deer populations down. All they talk about is the nice racks.

They don't ponder, why the PGC has not harvested its allowable amount of timber in recent years. They don't even question it. They just see bigger racked bucks.

They don't feel that the PGC is worried forrest certification. They just want to hunt bigger bucks.

They don't read anything about what is required to get PA's forrests certified. They just talk about how great it is to see big bucks.

They dismiss any thoughts that the PGC might be looking to bite the hand that feeds them. They are happy to see bigger racks.


Don't you guys see? There is more to all this than bigger bucks. Its about forrest certification. Deer numbers must be reduced to get more money for timber. That's what the DCNR wants.

I've heard a few of you guys even mention that if the PGC colapses, the DCNR will take over and hunters will lose.


What makes you feel the DCNR will be so bad? Because you realize that they are interested in other things beside hunters and deer. They want to sell us out. Then why is it so hard for you guys to see the PGC in this same light? Are they more interested in timber sales or hunters?

muzzyman88

If you want to have decent hunting in PA, you need access to private ground in most areas of the state. In my opinion, the PGC is forcing deer to live in or close to private property. Many are posting their ground because of this. Sure, there are areas of the state that have decent hunting. But they are getting few and far between.

It seems as though the game commission is no longer running itself, but giving in to DCNR and other forestry factions. Its not just a deer management issue here, its a complete mismanagement of forestry resources all in the name of money. Road kills are common here because we have a much higher population of people than many traditional deer states do.

BTBowhunter

OK Windwalker, you bring up some valid questions. Most importantly, why does the PGC continue to harvest less than their 1% sustainable yield? many of us have questioned that and as you say, without an answer I can buy into either.

Forest certification? I'm sure there is pressure on the PGC from DCNR on this. I beleive its a part of whats driving the herd reduction but not the primary driver.Other than the typical USP rantings, I havent seen any proof that it's all about certification . I'm open to any proof you might have.

Do I dismiss the statement that the PGC wants to bite the hand that feeds them? Yes I do. How can that possibly make any sense to anyone?


For years we mismanaged for too many deer. That needed to change. Although I havent personally experienced it, it would appear that herd reductions were too drastic in some areas. Steps have been taken to correct that. More corrective measures may indeed be needed. It aint been pefect but we're making more positive progress than negative IMHO

spencer0071

It looks like Exxon/Moblie andPennDot are as much to blame as the PGC.


http://www.statefarm.com/about/media/media_releases/deer.asp


30,000 to 50,000 annually?
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/mountainarea/s_481896.html


I am not saying that PGC is perfect or could not improve the way they conduct business, but I am looking for some facts to prove deer mismanagement.

Windwalker7

I admit I have no proof, but I'm guessing that the reason the PGC hasn't cut its timber in recent years is because they are waiting to sell it for more money once the deer population has been reduced enough to have its forrests certified.

Why sell that timber now when they can get so much more for it in a little while.

Yes, I know this sounds like a conspiracy theory, but it makes sense. I can think of no other reason.

We all know, and most of us admit, that part of the reason they want so many deer killed is for this certification. Knowing that, it would seem that they are holding back on timber harvests until they get certified and collect more money. I guess this would be a smart business move on the PGC's part.But if you think about it, the PGC should be interested in managing the State Game lands for hunters and wildlife, not timber sales.


They aren't interested in the concerns of hunters, just selling their timber.

I honestly feel that the PGC sees hunting as a downward spiral that will eventually become nonexistant. Guncontrol issues, uninterested youngsters, anti hunters, the media, etc...it is just a matter of time before there aren't enough hunters or hunter's dollars to support the PGC. They see the end is coming every year with their financial troubles. They got the DCNR breathing down their neck and know its a matter of time.

Maybe I'm way off base here, but time will tell. I might be wrong on a few things but I got a sneaking suspicion, I'm not very far off.

BTBowhunter

Well, I did some digging into the timber question and I think I've found part of the answer. when we look at the acreage owned , it looks at first like they arent cutting their 1%. But we (at least I) was looking at the total acreage and not the timberable acreage. It turns out that the 6000-7000 acres cut on average each year is actually about 1% of the timberable property. water, wetlands, steep hills, roads,food plotsetc dont count in the timberable acres

Windwalker, I beleive that PA timber is currently certified and the next recertification is coming up in 2008 so they obviously arent sitting on the timber hoping to get more out of it later.

Windwalker7

There is an article in the August 2005 Buckmasters magazine, about PA's deer management. It is titled " A House Divided"


It is about the deer debate here in PA. It does say that PA had its Forests certified by the Scientific Certification System. They were approved on one condition, that the state cut its deer numbers. It says that they get recertified every 5 years. It goes on to say that that one condition can't be ignored ( deer reduction)

So perhaps the forests are already certified. My theory doesn't hold water then.

I wonder why the PGC won't address this issue.

Bionicrooster

Being from NJ the only thing I can say is most of the guys I know who hunt PA are very happy with the quality and number of deer seen.

lead poisoner

Maybe only some of the forests have been certified? Like areas in the 2G area that has fences up around them to keep the deer out. Actually people all so.

PA Hardwoods

Crazy Horse RVN glad you can copy and paste the aimless conspiracy drivel coming from Jim Slinsky and his band of morons called the Unified Sportsmen. The only thing these people (and I use that term loosely) want is a deer behind every tree so they have an excuse to shoot at something other than paper targets and they don't care what it takes to get that. I am so sick of hearing this nonsense. Like Rob/PA I had probably my best season in my life, Seeing some very nice mature buck with an abundance of mature doe each with multiple fawns on both public and private land. My sightings probably were 60% private land to 40% public and the majority of this was in Centre County. Are their areas that the deer densities are extermely low? Yes there are, and there are 2 major factors that played into this. First off us the hunters are to blame, have some freaking restraint! You don't have to shoot 5 button bucks off of public land to survive for the year. There is a place that has been around for a few years called a grocery store[8D] that you can go and buy meat there a lot cheaper than what you can hunting for it. Secondly there is a large habitat problem with the big woods public lands. At one time those areas were over populated and the deer ate themselves out of house and home and the ones that have survived the greedy overharvesting by us hunters have moved on to areas that have more food. Just take a drive up around Quehanna and you'll see the browse line is as just as high as a deer can reach on it's hind legs and the only thing growing underneath is ferns. And we all know deer do not eat ferns. I do think the PGC and DCNR need to start timbering more of these areas to help regennerate th forests. There are also other factors that plainto this such as acid rain. But all in all I want to say is instead of wasting MY tax dollars fighting the PGC and blaming them, Maybe you ought to try working with them by joining and becoming active in an organization such as the NWTF or the United Bowhunters to work with the PGC to improve habitat and come up with ideas to improve our deer herd. And when I say improve that doesn't mean raise the deer population so all you have to do is step out of your jacked up Ford with your rebel flag in the window and hang your gun over the hood and shoot your 5 button buck for the season. I'm sure this will raise some feathers but I don't care!!! And will not apoligive for what I have written. I am sick of hearing all the whining, I hear very few legitimate ideas to improve our deer herd from you whiners all I ever hear is how your being cheated by the PGC. Also there is another major problem that people seem to skip right over, that right our wonderful Governor Fat Fast Eddie Rendell has done next to nothing to help the sportsman!!!! He would like nothing better than to ruin hunting here in PA so he can say there is now absolutely no reason for anyone in the state to own a gun since there is no more hunting. Well what else would you expect from a man who gets a "F" rating from the NRA?

Oh by the way Carzy Horse RVN why did't you tell everyone you hold a position with the Unified Sportsmen of PA like maybe the Southeast Regional, Co-Vice Director.