GR8RALLY

Hello Steve, just wanted to jump in on the conversation and provide my two cents worth on the matter. A majority of hunters state they are seeing less deer, resulting in less kills over the last two years and may include this year as well. I say maybe this year, because I know in my area of Tioga county, less doe permits were given out as to the many hunters I know didn't receive one. Guess we'll see when the numbers come out next year from DEC. I know in my local area, these numbers will be skrewed since a few "locals" recycle thier tags.

Also,reports say that we lose more hunters every year here in NY because many retire from the sport from age, illness death, etc. and combine that with the age requirement being 16 for new hunters, it's hard to fill the gap. This is what "drives" hunters away. If we are seeing less quality deer in the area, AR is not a bad thing.Seems you know your stat's, so you must also know then that 90 percent of all the bucks taken in NY are 1.5 and younger. "90" percent! If we are already experiencing lower deer sightings and kills, let's impliment the AR restrictions to rebuild our heards like PA has done. Yes, the next two years will be tough, but the rewards out way the issue of no harvest for that particular time frame. We'll have bigger bucks, not only antler size, but in body weight as well so that you can really fill that freezer up.

I think manyhunters have a resonable chance of taking a deer as you referred to, but maybe they should take a doe rather then a small buck if given an option. Again, in my area, less doe tags were given out, but I see believe that a hunter then should enjoy the sights of a young deer and let them go/grow for another year, rather then feel the only enjoyment is in the kill. So if your seeing less deer, and continue to shoot the ones you do see, pretty soon you won't see any. Common sense needs to prevail here for all of us, if we don't want DEC to impose restrictions, then we as hunters need to make the right choices. But again, we are a land of laws due to the fact many can't make the right choices and that common sense is no longer "common".[]

mlo3135127

Sounds like PA crying.... Oh it's NY! The deer population was supposed to be lowered by the DMPs. That is the whole reason for shooting does.

Good posts GR8RALLY & NY Bowhunter

GR8RALLY You hit the nail on the head with this last paragraph.

NY Bowhunter

I agree. Unfortunately that is a mighty tough task to get all hunters involved in. Hence the DEC is going to have to step in to manage the population with AR. I can't even get people in a 1 square mile section to adopt your/my logic.

I get a kick out of the guys that whine about the deer population with one breath and brag about thespikethey shot with the next breath.

Newtown

NY - long deer season, super sportsman's license provides many tags, lots of public land, expanded rifle hunting, good deer population, less hunters results in less pressure on herd and more bigger bucks. We are in the glory days of deer hunting in NY. If siting in your treestand on your 5 acre plot for 40 days does not get you a deer, maybe you should try something different.

GR8RALLY

Amen!

amayerican

I get a kick out of the guys that whine about the deer population with one breath and brag about thespikethey shot with the next breath.
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well said!
Idon't no much about checkers, butI do beleave its there move!

SteveBNy

My point is not all areas are the same - therefore a one size fits all is not the way to go.

Personaly never seen a definition of a "quality" deer.

And in the 3 wmu's (7j, 7h and 7M?) CNY Whitetails tried to introduce their trophy management scheme, 60% of the 1 1/2 are 6 pt or better. I believe I remember their study showing 30% plus where 8 or better. These are stats from a study done by a wildlife biologist. Points based AR would pretty much insure our best young bucks would be wiped out each year instead of spreading the pressure over the entire buck population. I STRONGLY suggest anyone thinking pts AR to be something they support should research "hygrading" and its effect on the buck population.

Pa's program was not to build the herd and as far as how AR is working, it really depends on who you talk to, where they get their numbers, and how those numbers are "worked" and presented. And it has only been 5 years.

I believe its Arkansas or Alabama that has had pts AR for much longer.
Their legal buck total inches has actually gotten lower. Again - see hygrading.

What the NY herd needs is to be managed for balanced population (match numbers to habitat) in unit sizes that make sense. Perhaps go to a one buck per hunter rule. I am lucky - where I hunt in southern Cayuga Cty - (little parts of) 7j and 7h, we seem to have that balance. Overall numbers are down a bit, but most who hunt around me - including the large state land areas around and bordering my several small areas- are still seeing huntable numbers. I have passed on numerous small bucks (my choice and I still may shoot one) and a lot of does (and still taking 3).

And it has been an outstanding year here for mature bucks - A couple 160's, acouple 150's, a handful of 130 and 140's and several 100 and above. More are talking about and letting younger ones walk, but few get bent over what an individual shoots. I personally do not believe that 90% of the 1 1/2 bucks could get killed hereand still produce these deer.

Drastic unproven changes that dictate to all hunters the style that some embrace are not needed and could hurt some areas greatly. Population balanced with local habitat should be every ones goal. Leave the trophy style management to the individual.

Steve

Western MA Hunter

My wife's cousin hunted very hard in NYS this year... Didn't do anything until the last day... Had a 17" 8 pt walk into him on a stand he hunted several other times this year. Weighed in the mid 170's i guess. I have not see it yet... will probably see the pics xmas eve.

matt068

Maybe some areas are in great shape. I hunted a total of 74 hours , I keep a log I saw 2 bucks ( I passed on a spike and very small 7pt) and 4 does that is unheard of I got skunked for the first time in 24 yrs. People were I hunt have found similar situations. I should say I am hunting in dmp 9a western Ny by lake Ontario. The areas I have hunted have all produced nicely but the past 3yrs have sucked no other words can describe that a flood of doe permits in past 4-5 yrs every body i spoke with got 2 until this yr.. You cannot tell me our deer herd is in the "Glory Days" here. The few animals I have seen harvested have been larger bucks but they are very few and far between. So yes I'm whining because I'm seeing our hunting going down the proverbial sh***er!!!!!

Western MA Hunter

Matt,
Where by Lake Ontario? I was out in Jefferson County for the first time this year. Took a nice beefy doe, but the hunting was very slow.