An issue with habitat/deer
08-28-2006, 08:34 AM
#12
Typical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Altoona,PA
Posts: 679
RE: An issue with habitat/deer
i also see a huge difference on private and public. there is a place thats private mountian land/old strip mines, that i take my dog to train. its 10mins from where i hunt which is the same type of place, mountain/ strip mines and the amount of deer they have and what we have on gl's is unreal.
08-28-2006, 09:11 AM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
RE: An issue with habitat/deer
I remember Alt saying that he was never contacted by anyone in the insurance industry.No he did say that if we didn't do anything about the deer,society would find other ways.He did say that we had to protect ouselves from lawsuits but nothing was ever said about the insurance industry.
I own my own insurance agency and I can tell you for a fact that the number of deer out there is of little concern to the insurance industry.Deer claims are very predictable and that predictablilty is what allows insurance companies to make a profit.The more deer consumers hit,the more comsumers pay.It's as simple as that.
I own my own insurance agency and I can tell you for a fact that the number of deer out there is of little concern to the insurance industry.Deer claims are very predictable and that predictablilty is what allows insurance companies to make a profit.The more deer consumers hit,the more comsumers pay.It's as simple as that.
08-28-2006, 09:26 AM
#14
Typical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Altoona,PA
Posts: 679
RE: An issue with habitat/deer
doug i agree w/ you and i have read what u said about society and so on. but im telling you he did say that theinsurance compaines would do something about it.
my dad had his own insurance business for 30 years and no i dont think they would do anything.. i agree.. but all i am saying is what he was quoted saying. i pry dont have it anymore but i do save some here and there and ill have to see if i can dig it up
my dad had his own insurance business for 30 years and no i dont think they would do anything.. i agree.. but all i am saying is what he was quoted saying. i pry dont have it anymore but i do save some here and there and ill have to see if i can dig it up
ORIGINAL: DougE
I remember Alt saying that he was never contacted by anyone in the insurance industry.No he did say that if we didn't do anything about the deer,society would find other ways.He did say that we had to protect ouselves from lawsuits but nothing was ever said about the insurance industry.
I own my own insurance agency and I can tell you for a fact that the number of deer out there is of little concern to the insurance industry.Deer claims are very predictable and that predictablilty is what allows insurance companies to make a profit.The more deer consumers hit,the more comsumers pay.It's as simple as that.
I remember Alt saying that he was never contacted by anyone in the insurance industry.No he did say that if we didn't do anything about the deer,society would find other ways.He did say that we had to protect ouselves from lawsuits but nothing was ever said about the insurance industry.
I own my own insurance agency and I can tell you for a fact that the number of deer out there is of little concern to the insurance industry.Deer claims are very predictable and that predictablilty is what allows insurance companies to make a profit.The more deer consumers hit,the more comsumers pay.It's as simple as that.
08-28-2006, 01:10 PM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: An issue with habitat/deer
Doug is absolutely right. I have worked for 30 years in the insurance industry with dozens of companies as a broker and not once has any company ever mentioned deer damage as something they cant handle. Anything predictable is money in the bank for insurance companies. if they can predict the amount of deer claims (and they can) they can charge an appropriate premium and make a profit. It's the thing they can't predict like widespread natural disasters of terrorism that gets their shorts in a bunch.
In terms of the dollars spent on deer claims and it's impacton the insurance industry, it would rank about equal in importance to what your doctor spends on magazines for his waiting room.
In terms of the dollars spent on deer claims and it's impacton the insurance industry, it would rank about equal in importance to what your doctor spends on magazines for his waiting room.
08-28-2006, 01:28 PM
#16
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 522
RE: An issue with habitat/deer
Haven't hunted in the Tuscarora for years, but do sometimes bow or muzzle loaderhunt along the Perry/Cumberland border, on SGL 170.
The oaks have rebounded nicely there since the gypsy moth depredations of 30 years ago and acorns were plentiful in theareas I hunted in. Seem to be lots of squirrels and turkeys, but few deer. As I recall, deer haven't been all that plentiful there in my experiences, but they were always more plentiful on surrounding ag lands and probably still are.
The oaks have rebounded nicely there since the gypsy moth depredations of 30 years ago and acorns were plentiful in theareas I hunted in. Seem to be lots of squirrels and turkeys, but few deer. As I recall, deer haven't been all that plentiful there in my experiences, but they were always more plentiful on surrounding ag lands and probably still are.
08-29-2006, 09:01 AM
#17
Spike
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 86
RE: An issue with habitat/deer
ORIGINAL: germain
If anybody is familar with the TUSC St forest in the SC of Perry county you know there are very few deer.The FLIR listed a large area at 5 DPSM.In the past this state forest was hit hard with heavy hunting pressure and has pretty easy access.If habitat is the reason as they claim can somebody please explain to me why there are so many healthy acorns left over uneaten going into the second season of grouse?Not to mention this place has very few bear and coyotes.
If anybody is familar with the TUSC St forest in the SC of Perry county you know there are very few deer.The FLIR listed a large area at 5 DPSM.In the past this state forest was hit hard with heavy hunting pressure and has pretty easy access.If habitat is the reason as they claim can somebody please explain to me why there are so many healthy acorns left over uneaten going into the second season of grouse?Not to mention this place has very few bear and coyotes.
Tuscarora State Forest District #3
The Tuscarora State Forest District # 3 does not plan to participate in DMAP this year. We are very pleased with the results to date and, based on initial survey data, have met our objectives for reducing deer densities throughout the Tuscarora. Current pellet group surveys indicate relatively low deer pressure and we are witnessing significant, but slow, forest recovery. This relatively low deer density was also confirmed by the FLIR interpretation. There remains one relatively small area with elevated deer impact; but access is a problem, and until that problem is worked out a DMAP designation would have limited value.
08-29-2006, 07:12 PM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,149
RE: An issue with habitat/deer
Yano,you know,I'll give them credit for taking the area off the DMAP.5 DPSM is pretty darn low.
I think it was Doug that mentioned browse.The young clearcuts nearby are looking good.I really think the left over acorns simply prove very low deer numbers not to mention whitetail deer aren't going to let many acorns from a white oak lay on the ground into winter.That tells me there's very few deer and in this area they were overharvested.
Denny,we used to see alot of deer up to the beginning of Hr.Things started heading downhill from there.I wouldn't waste time hunting deer there and feel sorry for anybody that does.
I think it was Doug that mentioned browse.The young clearcuts nearby are looking good.I really think the left over acorns simply prove very low deer numbers not to mention whitetail deer aren't going to let many acorns from a white oak lay on the ground into winter.That tells me there's very few deer and in this area they were overharvested.
Denny,we used to see alot of deer up to the beginning of Hr.Things started heading downhill from there.I wouldn't waste time hunting deer there and feel sorry for anybody that does.
08-29-2006, 08:25 PM
#19
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 522
RE: An issue with habitat/deer
If I'm thinking correctly on the Tuscarora, can you give me a reference from either Fowler's Hollow or Col. Denning? Ain't been up there in some time. Is it all within 4B, figure it probably is.
08-30-2006, 12:28 PM
#20
Spike
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 86
RE: An issue with habitat/deer
ORIGINAL: yano
Not that it will make you or anyone else that wants to hunt there feel any better, but even the DNCR folks seem to agree with your assessment:
Tuscarora State Forest District #3
The Tuscarora State Forest District # 3 does not plan to participate in DMAP this year. We are very pleased with the results to date and, based on initial survey data, have met our objectives for reducing deer densities throughout the Tuscarora. Current pellet group surveys indicate relatively low deer pressure and we are witnessing significant, but slow, forest recovery. This relatively low deer density was also confirmed by the FLIR interpretation. There remains one relatively small area with elevated deer impact; but access is a problem, and until that problem is worked out a DMAP designation would have limited value.
ORIGINAL: germain
If anybody is familar with the TUSC St forest in the SC of Perry county you know there are very few deer.The FLIR listed a large area at 5 DPSM.In the past this state forest was hit hard with heavy hunting pressure and has pretty easy access.If habitat is the reason as they claim can somebody please explain to me why there are so many healthy acorns left over uneaten going into the second season of grouse?Not to mention this place has very few bear and coyotes.
If anybody is familar with the TUSC St forest in the SC of Perry county you know there are very few deer.The FLIR listed a large area at 5 DPSM.In the past this state forest was hit hard with heavy hunting pressure and has pretty easy access.If habitat is the reason as they claim can somebody please explain to me why there are so many healthy acorns left over uneaten going into the second season of grouse?Not to mention this place has very few bear and coyotes.
Tuscarora State Forest District #3
The Tuscarora State Forest District # 3 does not plan to participate in DMAP this year. We are very pleased with the results to date and, based on initial survey data, have met our objectives for reducing deer densities throughout the Tuscarora. Current pellet group surveys indicate relatively low deer pressure and we are witnessing significant, but slow, forest recovery. This relatively low deer density was also confirmed by the FLIR interpretation. There remains one relatively small area with elevated deer impact; but access is a problem, and until that problem is worked out a DMAP designation would have limited value.
It also appears thestakeholders in the 4B CAC Pilot Program also feel the Deer population needs to be increased. By 10-20% in fact per the link below. Too bad the CAC Pilot Program wasn't in place before all of the past reductions, hey ?
Link to 4B CAC Pilot Program:
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/lib/pgc/deer/pdf/cac_report.pdf