LETS ROLL USP !!!!!
09-14-2006, 05:43 PM
#31
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 522
RE: LETS ROLL USP !!!!!
Fine with me ifJudge Simpson decides he'll be the one to dictate deer managment policy and givesUSP what they want. Then he can sort out all those things that you refer to. Better start working on your presentation to prove to him that you know more about ARs andHR, than those knuckleheads on Elmerton Ave. do, because he'll likely need some direction.
Might even hire you as a consultant, Lord knows it appears that you have the time and inclination for it.
Wonder how long it will be until some other group decides they're unhappy with too many deer, or deer hunting in generaland file their lawsuits? Perhaps some other judge will decide he or she will then take the reins and we can start all over again.
Might even hire you as a consultant, Lord knows it appears that you have the time and inclination for it.
Wonder how long it will be until some other group decides they're unhappy with too many deer, or deer hunting in generaland file their lawsuits? Perhaps some other judge will decide he or she will then take the reins and we can start all over again.
09-14-2006, 07:19 PM
#33
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: LETS ROLL USP !!!!!
The funny thing is that our professional biologists are ignoring the latest research that shows that the theory of dominant breeding is flawed and that our ARs will result in high grading and smaller antlers and will do nothing to improve the health of the herd or breeding rates. The herd is being managed to satisfy a select group of hunters that weren't happy with the amount of effort they had to expend to harvest a big buck. As a result we are ahrvesting fewer bucks with no documented improvement in rack size within any given age group.
09-15-2006, 08:14 PM
#34
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
RE: LETS ROLL USP !!!!!
ORIGINAL: deerfly
I never claimed to be an expert, but I am basing my opinions on the research done by the same experts the PGC has relied on to formulate their AR plan, Dr. Demarias, Dennis Strickland and Randy Deyoung. Those researchers have over ten years of experience with ARs that protect a higher percentage of their 1.5 buck than our ARs in PA. They are the ones that have concluded that ARS decrease average antler size in 2.5 and 3.5 buck.
I never claimed to be an expert, but I am basing my opinions on the research done by the same experts the PGC has relied on to formulate their AR plan, Dr. Demarias, Dennis Strickland and Randy Deyoung. Those researchers have over ten years of experience with ARs that protect a higher percentage of their 1.5 buck than our ARs in PA. They are the ones that have concluded that ARS decrease average antler size in 2.5 and 3.5 buck.
What they said was lots of maybes, could result in, might happen and that it did happen with computer simulations in a few instances. Something tells me that real deer respond a lot differently then computer deer.
I am sure that you and your USP friends what people and especially the court to believe that some professionals came to such a conclusion but I don’t that is the reality of the facts.
If you want people to believe they made the conclusion you said they made you will need to provide some proof of them coming to that conclusion since that isn’t what I understand them saying at all. In fact I couldn’t find any conclusion, just a lot of uncertainty in what I read from their reports.
Dick Bodenhorn
09-16-2006, 07:33 AM
#35
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: LETS ROLL USP !!!!!
The stated goal of AR was to increase the average age of our bucks somewhat to bring our B/D ratio back in line and improve the breeding class. It only makes sense that some high grading would be a possibility. You forget to mention however that PA hunters were mowing down almost every buckat 1 1/2 years of age. The firearm season is still the most significant season in terms of the buck kill and it is still its' original two weeks in length. Considering that many PA rifle hunters hunt one day and an even larger number hunt perhaps opening day and two Saturdays, it's ridiculous to compare how AR might be affecting a state that allows up to three bucks per season with a rifle season that lasts for over two months and includes the use of dogs. If it makes sense that some high grading might happen here, it also makes sense that high grading results are likely to be very much more pronounced in a state with a two month season,that allows the use of dogs, and has a three buck/season limit.
Your use of Mississippi is meaningless, apples and oranges, in PA.The rifle hunting pressure in Miss is much higher than here. the likelyhood that fewerAR legal deer will survive would make high grading much more of a concern. You leave out that a sublegal buck here that survives puberty might now become educated enough to outwit our 1-3 day hunters. If we had a twomonth season and used dogs, even the very smart bucks, or most of them,will eventually make a mistake and get intoa collision course witha bullet.
Once again Deaddeer. Beenthere, Deerfly, Ddear. You cleverly leave out part of the picture when you make one of your points. Spin Spin Spin... blah blah blah... spin spin spin...blah blah blah
Your use of Mississippi is meaningless, apples and oranges, in PA.The rifle hunting pressure in Miss is much higher than here. the likelyhood that fewerAR legal deer will survive would make high grading much more of a concern. You leave out that a sublegal buck here that survives puberty might now become educated enough to outwit our 1-3 day hunters. If we had a twomonth season and used dogs, even the very smart bucks, or most of them,will eventually make a mistake and get intoa collision course witha bullet.
Once again Deaddeer. Beenthere, Deerfly, Ddear. You cleverly leave out part of the picture when you make one of your points. Spin Spin Spin... blah blah blah... spin spin spin...blah blah blah
09-16-2006, 08:28 AM
#36
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: LETS ROLL USP !!!!!
I'll give you this, You are relentless. 
Produce the claims you are making and I will respond. Without a link or an exact quote, I wont answer because I have no idea which particularstatements or "facts" you are spinning today.
Produce the claims you are making and I will respond. Without a link or an exact quote, I wont answer because I have no idea which particularstatements or "facts" you are spinning today.
09-16-2006, 09:54 AM
#37
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 430
RE: LETS ROLL USP !!!!!
What you've failed to recognize is that a lot if not most USP members don't really care what you think. They know what the conditions are where they hunt and want a change in the management form. That's not being unreasonable given the hunting conditions on a great many game lands as well as State property.
Your looking out for your particular wants and needs and so are the people who signed the law suit. (Remember the large percentage of license sales loss? The silent minority...)
It's imperative for RSB to go along with the PGC deer plan. He works for them. Also, if/when DCNR takes over , and they have great influence over the agency as we all know, Dick may get a layoff slip. The Game Commission and the Fish Commission certainly wouldn't need that many officers. That being the case they could fill up any available openings and the rest would be either put out to pasture or simply laid off as is the case in the real world.
Remember, both agencies have legislative laison reps. Both agencies have executive staffs. Both agencies have officers.All that duplication would be surperfluous and undoubtly some folks would get the boot. So..., in order to maintain this duplicity the PGC has to fight hard to stay alive even though all the legislators have been made aware of the incompentance the PGC has displayed (for all to see) in running an agency and driving it intio near bankruptcy as well as standing by while their customer base dwindles away and they continue to alienate the hunter.
Maybe the PGC should hire Gary Alt back. I'm sure he has a plan.
Your looking out for your particular wants and needs and so are the people who signed the law suit. (Remember the large percentage of license sales loss? The silent minority...)
It's imperative for RSB to go along with the PGC deer plan. He works for them. Also, if/when DCNR takes over , and they have great influence over the agency as we all know, Dick may get a layoff slip. The Game Commission and the Fish Commission certainly wouldn't need that many officers. That being the case they could fill up any available openings and the rest would be either put out to pasture or simply laid off as is the case in the real world.
Remember, both agencies have legislative laison reps. Both agencies have executive staffs. Both agencies have officers.All that duplication would be surperfluous and undoubtly some folks would get the boot. So..., in order to maintain this duplicity the PGC has to fight hard to stay alive even though all the legislators have been made aware of the incompentance the PGC has displayed (for all to see) in running an agency and driving it intio near bankruptcy as well as standing by while their customer base dwindles away and they continue to alienate the hunter.
Maybe the PGC should hire Gary Alt back. I'm sure he has a plan.
09-16-2006, 11:22 AM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Slower Lower Delaware 1st State
Posts: 1,776
RE: LETS ROLL USP !!!!!
Makes alot of sense. Also - have no idea what Miss would have to do with PA.Way too many variables to come to a conclusion and then compare it to PA ro any other state in the NE.
Would be like me in Delaware comparing a study in Texas and making decisions and conclusions for AR and Management on my hunting property or the state as a whole.Similarities but that's where it ends.
Anybody that's hunted for any length of time knows there are vast differances from one local to another just a few miles away - let alone a state in the deep south compared to PA in the NE. Come On Give me a Break.
Would be like me in Delaware comparing a study in Texas and making decisions and conclusions for AR and Management on my hunting property or the state as a whole.Similarities but that's where it ends.
Anybody that's hunted for any length of time knows there are vast differances from one local to another just a few miles away - let alone a state in the deep south compared to PA in the NE. Come On Give me a Break.
09-16-2006, 11:30 AM
#39
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Slower Lower Delaware 1st State
Posts: 1,776
RE: LETS ROLL USP !!!!!
BTW - If this thread starts headed toward where I think its going - Its getting locked up.
We will not get back to looking at the "PA deer numbers" hashing that has been posted for months and months and months in this forum.It ain't gonna happen on my watch.We've all seen the numbers and listened to the constant bickering and flaming.
Keep it fresh and New
We will not get back to looking at the "PA deer numbers" hashing that has been posted for months and months and months in this forum.It ain't gonna happen on my watch.We've all seen the numbers and listened to the constant bickering and flaming.
Keep it fresh and New
