Crazy Horse RVN

"DougF" those pigs in Tunkhannock, where are the photos? All of a sudden thy've disappeared. Sounds fishy. Can you provide credible photos?

Phade

No offense...but think about a horse. It may be "high" up on its neck, but that same neck is 10-20 inches off the ground1/3 to 1/2of it's life... They don't eat, graze, etc.20 hands (horsemeasurements)off the ground...

Gr8ful Deer

Here is an update from TODAY 7/26/06 that I just received from my mother:

On Yeager Road in Linden Road, there is a rersidence owned by Doc Miller. I believe Mr. Miller isan officer of the Williamport Police Department.

Apparently, the Millers had a recent litter of German Shepherd pups that mysteriously "went missing" overnight. Afteer searching their property extensively, they gathered up some friends and did a sweep through the woods near their home/farm to see if they could find them. While they were performing sweeps of the surrounding forest, one of the searchers (a woman whose name I have forgotten) absolutely positively identified a mountain lion that was fleeing away from them. The pups were never found, and with a mountain lion in the area, I know for a fact, they never will be.

As for the claim that the recent attack on the horse could have been made by a pig ... I would love to see the pig that could slash the back of a horses neck in a claw-like manner, while cuting the side and bottom of its neck with tooth punctures. I have neverseen apig that could exert that level of dexterity with their tusks and/or teeth, andmy father, brother and I used to butcher hogs whenwe were younger, so I think I am pretty familiar with their level of physical capabilities.

As for a bear, there was a bear that killed a MINIATURE horse in Northern NJ last year. (the horse attacked last week was no mini one!) However, the bear killed that horse by twisting its head & breaking its neck - not by jumping onto its back and applying a biting choke hold to its larynx. It is also believed that the bear killed the mini stallion in its sleep with little or no disturbance, because that mini horse farm was also populated by some kinds of fowl that would have alerted to the slightest inkling of a struggle & they never awakened or caused a commotion. (I can't rememeber if they were geese, peacocks or guinea hens.) The bear then dragged the horse through a 3-strand electric fence, over a wooden stockade fence and into some nearby woods where its partially-eaten body was discovered the next day. Bears obviously can (and will) go through a lot of effort to kill big game when they are hungry enough. However, this recent attack wasdescribed as clearly not a bear attack!

I will continue to provide any upodates that arise in the near future.For the record,I have never claimed that the PGCreleased these animals, they are not escaped pets, or they are definitelyreproducing populations, or they are animals that recently migrated .. because noone knows for sure. All I know for sure is thatI know at least 6 VERY credible witnesses that have seen these things since the80's in Potter, Lycoming, Clinton, and Sullivan counties. If it werejust an isolated sighting with out such long term repeats in such widespreadareas.I also know for certainthat PA is blessed withsomevery wild andrugged terrain that would easily provide a sly, secretive large catwith plenty enough space tosurvide without any human detection.

- Gr8ful

P..S. Cougardaville: I PM'ed my cell # to you - I will be tuna fishing offshore all day tomorrow, but I will be back on land tomorrow evening. Feel free to call me to discuss. I can definitely put you in touch with others that will happily provide you with their 1st hand accounts and information. These people are family or close personal friends of my family.

P.S.S. Wayomic: if you have nothing useful to contribute to this thread, please go back to your internet gay porn! After all, you have obviously already come out of your closet, since no real hunter or real heterosexual man would ever watch a movie named "Cat People."

Cougardaville

I am reading thisthread, and I wish for once people would listen to whatother people are trying tosay with out going through the bashing!
DougE I am not directing this personally at you. There are mountain lions in the state of Pennsylvania, there are pictures of the cats, tracks, and scat. Also there are many pictures of deer kills. Now about the horse attacks there have been many, and recent. Yes, there are pictures of the attacks, and yes, vets have claimed the attack to be mountain lions. When an animal vet studies,they are taught about wild animal attacks on horses.They need to know which animal made the attack, to treat the horse properly.

Can a bear climb up on a horse, I highly doubt it! Bears do not make a effort to attack horses, but they do scare them really good if the horse is not accustomed to them being around.Also a bear has five toes, not to be mistaken for the mountain lion that has five, but one of the clawsis a dew claw, that is not shown in a track.

A horse is not the type of animal to stand and be attacked or killed without a fight!! The bucking, kicking, rearing, biting is not bad behavior towards people this is their instinct to fight off predators.

While the nay sayers are reading and saying, how do I know and show you the proof, we would like to do that. Proof is on the way, but it will be presented to good listeners and people that want to learn what's in the wilds of your forest. It will not be presented for an arguement but for education. I would like you to open your minds and except that these mountain lions are here in the East! I wish there were more people like Dr. Lewisthat warn others of the dangers these cats present.

I would like you to also visit your state and federal laws, STOP guessing, these mountain lions in Pa. and New York are NOT the Eastern cougar that is protected. They are extinct!!

Here is some proof of whatI say, as a result of the work I do.
http://www.trackincats.com/questionslash.php

Cougardaville

livbucks

HEY...Watch it!
I went to see "Cat People" with my friends when I was a teenager. I assure you I am a real hunter and a real heterosexual. I wanted to see Natasha Kinski naked. To tell you the truth, I don't remember if she was actually naked in the movie or not. It was a long time ago.
Thanks for reminding me of my teen years.Going to see that movieis something I have not thought about in a coons age.
Back to the debate.

livbucks

Cougardaville,
Thanks for clearing up the bear/cat attack questions. I've not heard much about bears attacking horses and that is why I asked. I guess the number of claw marks shown would tell the tale. I didn't know that offhand. I guess a bear could attack a full size horse if it wanted to but that would not be it's preferred meal in my opinion. Too much effort. Attacking a horse would be normal for a cougar though. I would be interested in seeing some photos of the damage in this latest case.

Bionicrooster

No offense, but I don't think that qualifies as "hard" evidence...

SteveBNy

If that is the case, why are they so bad at it?

And still wondering how they survive without killing? Are these "mountain lions" practising catch and release?

Steve

Phade

No offense bro, but coming from someone who is supposed to be the cougar "expert" on this forum (meaning more knowledgeable than the large majority of the members here on the animal), I'd expect you know technical language of the mountain lion.

Mountain lions do not have due claws.

They do however, have dew claws. Spelling isn't a big deal in and of itself. The problem is, it is a technical term specific to the category of animal. You, being a studied person of that animal...should know the correct form of that technical term. Would you have faith in a car mechanic who spells engine...injen?

The bear part is interesting, and open for debate. Like you said, a horse moves a bunch in personal defense. Is it not plausible that a feeding horse, or a horse whohasit's head/necklow to the ground in defense at the moment of impact can suffer those types of injury at the hands of more than one variety of animal? Bear also stand up on hind legs quite often during daily activity, not to mention in defense, and predation. They can be 6' plus in length, meaning they can be pretty tall standing up.



I'd safely say the bear above (an average bear per context of photo) could impact a horse pretty high up.... To be conclusive is quite a step in biological terms. There'd need to be some darn good evidence to disprove the bear possibility. However, I'm still shocked at the lack of consideration for a hog. NYer's went through this situation this year...horses and cattle getting attacked...then a farmer finally shot one of the culprits...a darn hog. One cow was put down due to injury at it's leg...and GASP....neck, comprised of slash marks.

Cougardaville

Yes, at times they are bad at it. If these are "released or escaped pets", they were hand fed, not having to catch and kill their meals to eat. Horse meat, is fed to them in captivity??Next young cats, mostly disperses, looking to seek territory of their own after kicked off from the year or so with momma, are now hunting alone.[/align][/align]Taking on a horse compared to a deer is a huge difference. An average deer of 150 pounds compared to the average horse of a 1,000# is a lot more to fight. This requires strength and a good stalking attack to succeed. Like I stated earlier a horse will FIGHT, not to be killed. Many times a cougar is injured trying to take on such a large animal. This is also truewith elk. [/align][/align]Many cougars all over are found with empty stomachs and under weight. If a cougar is born, and trained to eat rabbits to survive, once the rabbits are gone they have to move on to other prey. Deer is supposed to be the main diet, BUT we all know the situation with the deer herds. This time of year, there is large cover for the deer and many other animals, especially with the rainfall we have had. Some hay fields are not being cut due to the conditions from the bad weather. This has given the deer an advantage to hide better. Cougars hunt mostly by site, not smell.[/align][/align]Then look at the mowed pastures that our horses, cows, sheep goats etc. are existing in, they are in clear view and trapped behind fences. [/align][/align]Next are our domestic dogs and cats. They are easy prey for the cougar. Check your area for missing pets![/align][/align]Not all horse escape with injury, some do get killed...(grapic pictures)[/align]http://www.trackincats.com/pictureslash.php[/align][/align]Cougardaville[/align]