cardeer

LOL

Crazy Horse RVN

"Called checking my sources for accurate information."

"T" there are two things to keep in mind when you inquire of the PGC.

1. This is the agency who promoted a Bear Biologist withNO Deer experience to head up a major deer project; (Esentially working OJT)who even the agency is now trying to distance themselves from because of the failure of the program.

2. This is an agency that the Pittman/Robertson people are investigating. Remember, Virginia recently had a similar situation, and they didn't come away smelling like a rose.

DougE

I'll even hand youthat one about Alt.The guy spent25 years in the woods studying bears but never knew what over browsing was.I'll agree that the PGC made a mistake with him.They're distancing themselves from him because he's on a crusade to discredit them.

MikeE51848

Doug, if they're gonna use bait, then allow only junior hunters and seniors to hunt over it. Even then, it should be only does, if that's not already part of the proposal. But in no way, should anybody else be hunting with bait.

Crazy Horse RVN

If you use deer scent, you hunt over "Bait."

If you hunt adjecent to an apple orchard, you hunt over "bait."

If you hunt near a food plot, you hunt over "bait."

If you plant a crop for game and hunt deer near it, you hunt over "bait."

If you put out a salt lick or mineral block and remove it when required by law, yet stillhunt that same area (with salt/mineral block removed) you hunt over "bait."

If you put out a deer decoy, you hunt over "Bait."

Let's face facts fellas, Pennsylvanians have been hunting over "Bait" for many years!

T_in_PA3

Just like hunting stocked pheasants. No difference.

sproulman

doug, alt said at lock haven college, he said to hunters, DONT SHOOT A SMALL DOE OR FAWN. i was there. what did hunters do, they shot the small doe and fawns for freezer meat.i also liked the horn restrictions. did you know the heads of some of the sportsmen clubs, mine included were there crying that kids need to kill doe.what they did not say was, I WANT FREEZER MEAT. so, i did not hate him for his program but i knew it would not work on the DOE thing as many are after meat.i blame everything that has happened on hunters and pgc and dcnr. they let meat hunters do it and they did it.now, sdame ones are crying, no deer.that, makes me sick.

DougE

sproulman,the reason Alt wanted hunters to pass on small doe and fawns was to reduce the herd faster.The fastest and most efficient way to reduce the herd is to shoot matures does.They produce the most fawns and their fawns have a much better survival rate.I really don't have much of the problem with the plan Alt implemented.What I have a problem with is the way he sold it.Instead of being honest and telling hunters the truth,he made ridiculous claims that could never come true.You can't reduce the herd to the levels he was shooting for and expect to have more and bigger bucks.You also can't expect the buck harvest to increase after the first year of AR when you're still reducing the herd.the biggest thing that bothered me about Alt is how he tried to claim the herd was actually increasing as of 2003.The guy's nuts.

sproulman

as clueless as you say i am,i agree that killing the older doe will hurt numbers of deer born, not habitat causing it.you look now and you very seldom see older doe. most look to be just over 2 years old.i said this too many times,you cant kill doe and fawns like is being done nowand expect to have deer or nice bucks.the horn restriction should have not been allowed for junior hunters and us old timers.most i talk to want a NICE buck not a spike.

DougE

Relax Sproulman,you'll have plenty of deer over the next couple of years.They severly cut allocations this year and the past two mild winters combined with a low kill last year and excellent mast crop will provide plenty of targets this fall.I live in an area that's protected the deer for the past 50 years.The habitat is totally destroyed and the deer are usually in pretty poor shape.This year they came out of winter in good shape because of all the acorns and i'm seeing twin fawns all over this property.That's something I haven't seen in quite a few years.You better believe the habitat and health of the does has a direct bearing on how many fawns make it until fall.