Cougardaville

This is a long, true and very sad story.

http://www.trackincats.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1384&sid=425812afb3b5447ad1f32 d027ba5a4ff#1384

Pa Trophy Man

First off, i want to say i am very sorry for this man's lose. I can personally understand the bond formed between a man and a dog as my lab recently last a fight with cancer after 13 years. However, wolves absolutely belong in the wilds they once occupied or they would have never been to begin with. People need to remember something, when enterning the wild they are at it's mercy, and control isn't something we are granted. I don't believe the wolves were intentionally torturing or killing his dogs for'fun.' (the wolves may have percieved them as a threat to their territory or simply viewed them as a food source as they are oppurunists when it comes to killing) You think someone whotrains dogs would understand them better, The wolves were defending what'srightfully their's, as im sure his dogs would have done if they wolves wondered intotheman's house. Does, anyone stop to grieve for all the small game and deer our beloved pets harass to death or injure? This is nature at it's best; grieve over it if you will, respect it, but taking it outon the wolves isn't the answer.

Cougar Mag

Coyotes kill dogs as well.

We do need to remember one thing..........deer, turkey, and elk were also reintroduced to many areas. People seem to forget that.

hillbillyhunter1

The wolf issue is a very serious one and can't be passed off by saying "that's nature". ASK ANY OUTDOORSMAN WHO LIVES IN A STATE THAT HAS FEDERALLY MANDATED WOLF RE-INTRODUCTION AND MANAGEMENT POLICIES. These federal policies have been shoved down the throats of States like WY, MT,and ID by misguided federal agencies without the support of residents there and to the detriment of all western hunters and outdoorsman. If you think the wolf-reintroduction and current management (which is non-existent) is a positive thing perhaps we should re-introduce them into Pennsylvania-after all, they were once native there as well, correct?

Am I saying eradicate all wolves again? Perhaps not, but they do have to be managed correctly with major input from the states, and residents of thoses states, where they now reside.

livbucks

Survival of the fittest is what governs nature. When mankind allows a predator that cannot coexist with our interests to remain, THAT is going against nature itself. The fellow should go on a rampage and kill all the wolves he can...THAT is nature at work. Protecting these wolves in spite of what happened is anti-natural.
Why is it that we as a species feel guilty about the fact that we are the dominate species and feel remorse when there should be none. Remorse and guilt are unnatural and should not be felt when blasting a wolf or any other species that threatens us. The guy who said the wolf is protecting what is rightfully his is wrong. There are no rights in nature. Only conquests. Survival of the fittest is the only law in nature.

livbucks

Let me add that if the wolf cannot be blamed for it's actions then by the law of nature neither can the guy who kills the wolves be blamed for his natural reaction.

Pa Trophy Man

Ok so we get rid of everything that cannot coexist within our own interests..Where does that end? We have a history of doing exactly that (the indians, and numerous other game animals that have been hunted out of their previous territorities)

Ok, so some wolves killed a couple hounds- we shall kill all the wolves, somebody got attacked by a bear- lets kill all the bears, somebody got attacked by a cougar- kill them all to.

That really doesn't make any sense to me, isn't that the same as me (a deerhunter) seeing someonespet chasing deer, so i kill it because it wasn't in my interest to have the dog harassing game while i was trying to hunt them?

livbucks

AHH..but we do kill bears, and cougars.
Hunting these animals instills a natural fear in them of humans. To not kill wolves is unnatural selection and will ultimately come back to haunt us. Did I say to eradicate wolves from the planet? No. Wolves by nature cannot coexist with humans unharassed though. They must be pushed to the shadows and learn to exist in that niche'. The people who protect the major predators from human harassment should be the first to be eaten. The forces behind wolf reintroduction think of them as some cute cuddly little puppies, and want them to be placed ahead of the public interest. When they kill or maim humans and their property (dogs), then yes, they should be hunted down. If a bear or cougar attacks a human, does the public not hunt them down and kill them? Yes they do. Happens all the time. Wolves deserve no different treatment.
Don't bring the Indians in on this debate. You are inferring that wolves are on the same plane as humans. Or maybe that Indians are on the same plane as wolves. I can't tell which.

Pa Trophy Man

Im not really infering any relationship between indians and wolves. It just a pattern of destructive behavoir shown by mankind. You mentioned about havinga sense of guilt or remorse about being the dominant species as men, and its far from guilt- it is a sense of responsibility to preserve what was here before me because i trust it was here for a reason. I firmly believe it was put here by someone who had a bigger plan that saw way beyond the interest of 'mankind.'

As far as hunting predators, and making them fear us. Well thats absolutely ridicilous (or however thats spelled). Hunting wolves into the shadows and into a niche won't make them fear anything, its just going to kill them. The wolves are no more to blame for killing those dogs than a gun is for shooting someone. That is a predator, that is what they do; they prey.

livbucks

Point taken and I respect that, (prior to your edit). All I can say is to walk in the shoes of those that have to deal with this re-introduction and feel their pain before passing the consequences off as trivial to the "greater good". I do not cherish the thought of someones little girl, that went out to play in the back yard andbecoming the chew toy of an aggressive animal that we had under control and then relinquished that control. Sounds almost too similar to the Bin Laden situation we now face.