Pa Trophy Man

You arenot going to condition an animal to learn a different sort of fear from a man or any of its other natural predators. Example: Cars have been around for a long time, but yet it appears no animal has learned to look both ways before crossing (all kinds of things get smashed on the road- deer, bear, coyotes, elk whatever.)

Once again, i have never stated their isn't A LOT of holes in the way they are currently managed, but i firmly believe a medium can be reached where wolves, bears whatever can exist in certain areas alongside humans with little to no negative reprocussions (bears are a great example of that).

To suggest harassing/hunting animals is going to change their nature isn't correct at least at the present date (unless they start evolving). We have domesticated dogs for a whole lot of years yet they continually attack owners/children. You can do whatever you want to them, its still not going to change the way their brains work- they are aimed at only one thing, and thats surviving.

I'm begining to feel like im explaining myself to a child. I've already read the golden book of wildlife management, once you understand it we'll move on.

hillbillyhunter1

This statement is totally incorrect and what I believe is at the crux of our disagreement. I respect your right to have an opinion but must say you are wrong. Hopefully as you grow up you'll learn to evaluate things for yourself as opposed to quote some textbook.

If not, I'm sure you'll have great success helping to waste taxpayer dollars.

Good luck hunting this fall.

Pa Trophy Man

hillybillyhunter

check your PMs.

livbucks

My dog loves to lay on the couch. It knows that if I am home, it will get in trouble and rarely attempts it then. Should I be out and return home, there is dog hair on it, but no dog. On occasion, the dog will boldly assert itself in an attempt to climb up. If I react, it slinks away. Should I relent and allow it to lay on the couch even one time, I must then break it all over again. I can't believe how basic a theory this is and the fact that we can debate it to the measure we have thus far. In PA, black bears will routinely run from a human even when cubs are involved in the encounter. I dare you to try that in one of the big parks where humans are prohibited from hunting them. If a bear is bold in PA, it is dead. I'll dare to say this has an influence in their behavior toward humans overall. Bold ones are dead, shy ones live another day. Simple. Why do you think that the park rangers have a harassment program out west? They approach the bears and if they (bears) do not run, the rangers shoot them with rubber bullets and launch explosives at them. If this has no precedent for results, why do they do it?

Planter

I want the woods I hunt in to have a slight hint of danger. There is a lot better chance of falling out of your tree than there is of an actual confrontation with something dangerous. It's funny how many guys wait for full light to hunt 500 yards from the road. It could be the bogeyman that should dwell in all of our imaginations. I would be happy to pop a wolf should the chance arrive, but I would like to hear them howl as well.

Mr. Longbeard

Dogs get shot if they run deer by me!!!

Dogs should be in your yard,on a leash, or in your house. Not in my woods screwing up my hunt!!!

Elkcrazy8

You guys and gals make for interesting reading. I grew up in New York state and moved out here to Idaho in the 80's and hunted these mountains before the wolves took their strong hold.

I have logged thousands of miles on my feet and feel that I may be able to add a little fire to the thread. I would be ok with the fact that the days of easy elk are over. I have managed to alter my hunting habits and normally take an elk every year with my bow. The problem that I have with the whole deal is finding 10-12 half eaten elk laying on the ground each season. First hand knowledge of how wasteful our APEX fleabags are. Fish and game is trying to get rid of wolves in areas that have been scientificly proven that the elk are on a downhill slid and will not recover at their present rate. When they finally convince the wolf heros, it may be too late for those herds.

One other issue deals with the ranchers who are trying to make a living at the only thing that they have ever known. Cattlemen are banding together and run night long patrols to protect their herds.

PA Trophyman, you seem like a knowledgible person. In your years of schooling, what would have been your reaction to a government backed shredding project to shred all of your books as you are trying to better yourself through knowledge. Lets say that you are lobbying against the government to save your books so that you can make a living and nothing gets done. I know that books aren't cattle, but I am sure that you can make the comparison. These poor ranchers are on the road to losing everything that they have ever owned.

Idaho has been given 1 million dollars to manage the wolves, almost a third of that has to go to the Nez Perce. Leaving a huge burden on Idaho to help manage the wolves. If fish and game has to foot the rest of the bill, sportsman in ,and/or visiting our great state will see price increases. The crazy part is that we still have to ask permission on what we can and can't do!

I personally know of Outfitters who closed up shop because of the wolves also. These animals have caused huge ripple effects that can be felt clear back to where some of you live. It is a sure thing that it has rippled that far,because I am reading this on the east column.

These wolves are getting braver and braver as time goes on. Try to keep your cool when you have half a dozen or so circling you while you are hunting. It has happened. I was prompted to start packing a 44 to protect myself.

Idaho had native wolves still living in the state, yet smaller than the canadian wolves. I am sure that the native population will for sure be bred out of existance now. Idaho holds a very small population of Caribou in the panhandle, an area now holding wolves, what will happen to their demise. Looks like we may have endangered 2 different species in the process of relocating Canadian wolves, but we don't hear arguments about that.

The story that originally started this post was not a first or isolated case, This has been ongoing since the beginning of the project and continues to get worse as time goes on. Wolves were denning on the outskirts of the city 2 years ago and following the deer migrations towards the valley.

Wolves have changed the migration routes hereand caused 80 elk to cross the resevoir instead of going around it. All 80 elk perished when the ice broke.

It may be hard to form an opinion on just one event, but this has become a daily occurance for me and other Idahoans. It would not take long for anyone reading this to figure that this is one huge mess with no end in sight!!!!!!

Cougardaville

Thank you!! Elkcrazy8, for jumping in on this thread I started. Youdid an awesome job bringing the topic back on task. I study the wolves and the cougars. I sometimes forget how little most people know what's happening around the world with predators and sooner or later in each and every one's back yard! UNLESS, we all start to learn about the truth of these reintroduction's and the cause and effect they have on every day life. You have testified as seeing this first hand and I know it sickens you! Many others have had this experience and as it is said the dangers to humans are growing! The human is not warned or protected but the animal has the "rights to protection". [:-]We we are dictated by our government, we can not take chargeor have our voices heard in what is happing toour life styles or keeping our families, livestock or pets safe!!The ranchers or guided hunts are being forced to give up a job,theirincome andsomething they really love and enjoy doing..due to the animal rights groups and biologist...Stories such as yours need to be told. Pictures of those 10-12 half eaten elk need to be shown. Herds of sheep devastated in a night, laying half dead maimed and sufferingneed to be brought to the eye of the public. This site is about hunting. If you all want to continue with a sport and way of life handed down generation after generation, you need to wake up and "smell the coffee". I see an avatar of a man on this thread shown with a buck, glad he had the success, this may be the last one he gets. The predators are growing in population and species.The prey they need to surviveare the same game animals you hunt, they are depleting quickly, so when their food source isgone, so is your hunting!!
As I said this some ofyou said to your selves "Oh yeah, I will be hunting those predators" [:@]Well, some will cost you jail and a fine $$$ the rest really doesn't taste that good'!!![:-]

Cougardaville

http://www.idahostatesman.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060620/NEWS0502/606200369

Edition Date: 06-20-2006


Wolves are menace

If one assumes that one wolf kills only one elk per week, that means over 30,000 elk were killed last year by wolves in Idaho; that doesn't consider the stress and strain the constant predatory wolves have on elk herds. Cows go unbred and abort calves.

Statewide harvest by hunters is only 20,000. How does losing so many elk to wolves benefit the state? If hunters contribute $60 million to the economy consider the risk that wolves present. That is an average of $3,000 contributed to the economy per elk killed by a hunter. Now consider the cost that wolves have on the economy for each elk they kill; this doesn't even consider other wildlife or ranching impacts.
[/align]
Harvest is down despite an increase in the number of hunters, and these statewide reporting numbers gloss over the details in areas of wolf concentrations. What the article failed to report was, to keep hunters buying tagEdition Date: 06-20-2006 []




[/align]

Elkcrazy8

I don't have the link to the page but it can be found on the bowsite under Idaho state forum. The link shows the article in the Idaho Statesman a few days back. There was a little girl playing with her weiner dogs in the back yard, mom and dad called the little girl in. Just as she reached the back door 2 wolves came into the back yard and gobbled her dogs right in front of her. She could have been there if mom and dad did not call her in. There is no way those animals will stay in the remote areas. They roam with the food , even if that brings them into town. The remote areas are too harsh for the game to make it, and they will move to lower ground in search of winter grounds, low ground where the people live. This is not a good mix. If they ever do open up a season, I will bet that everyones sights will be hitting a little low and a little far back!!!!!!!!!!!