germain

I onlypasted part of this article to make my point.Ny and Pa's DCNR are going in seperate directions.WV also is taking the same approach as NY.I wonder why biologists in neighboring states are going in opposite directions?

OOps forgot to paste the article.Look down.

germain

Deer herd shrinking, but may bounce back
Experts oppose DEC's plan to boost population


By Dan Shapley
Poughkeepsie Journal



With the size of New York's deer herd down about 28 percent in three years, the Department of Environmental Conservation aims to help the herd grow.
Herd size is regulated by adjusting the number of does hunters can shoot. To increase the birth rate, the DEC gave out only 387,600 permits to shoot antlerless deer in 2005 — a decrease of 220,000. At one to three fawns per doe, those surviving deer should fuel a resurgence in the herd.
The DEC's strategy is being questioned by some in the Hudson Valley, where there's evidence deer harm forest ecology and farm profits — not to mention car fenders and suburban shrubs.
The DEC goal of increasing the size of the herd comes from citizen task forces made up of hunters, farmers and others with often competing ideas about the ideal herd size. Goals for this fall have not been set.

Four Sox

Ah, now waiting for all the excuses to roll in!!!

germain

Just makes you wonder.In PA they are blaming the low deer numbers on poor recruitment from bad winters and lack of food.
In NY they are blaming low deer numbers on hunting.
Hmmm

Airborneguy

I don't take it as blaming the number on hunters, but obviouslythe only real way to raise it is by limiting doe hunting. Besides, I thought you guys were suing to get PA's herd increased? What's wrong with NY trying to increase its herd? I think its a greatidea and hope last year's sacrifice (I could've taken at least 3 deer if I had the permits I hadin '04) pays off.

jcchartboy

As is usually the case...this article can not even be taken at face value..the facts are not even legitimate.

The article is intended to discuss the fact that New York is attempting to grow the herd by limiting doe permits. However it immediately makes the following statement...

Of coursethat strategywould be questioned by residents in the Hudson Valley...The DEC's stated goal in many parts of the Hudson valley is to REDUCE the herd!! In fact in the area where this paper is circulated (Dutchess county), virtually every hunter recieved two doe permits this year, last year, and will again this coming year...

The whole point being...Don't let a newspaper who's stated goal is to sell advertisments influence your opinion on biological topics that they clearly themselves can't even comprehend...

If you are truelly interested in the DEC's strategies, contact the DEC...don't accept second hand reports that misrepresent the facts...

DougE

Furthermore,if you read that article,the guy statting the herd was reduced do to excessive doe permits is the head of a sportsman's club.He's not a biologist.

DougE

Germain,I don't know what to tell you except recruitment has been way down in this area.This past year it was up but the prior two years,I saw very few fawns.I have trail camera's out from the beginning of june until the end of September.I got two fawns on trail cameras that entire time.Usually every other picture has a fawn or two on them.The spring following the winter of 2004 was devistating.I found dead deer in several locations that weren't there during muzzleloader season.I think in total I found at least 15 dead deer.One area alone had 9 and that's more than were harvested during deer season.We busted open the femures on about half of these deer and they were all bright pink,a sure sign of malnutrition.Now if this many deer were actually dieing of malnultrition,how manymany fawns do you suppose were never born or died shortly after birth.Once a doe loses 25% of her body weight,the fawns chance of surival in almost nil.As you know,i wasn't a big fan of herd reductions a few years ago.After seeing the devistation from that winter,it became obvious that the habitat couldn't support that many deer.That's when my opinion on Pa's deer management started to change.

This year we carried over more deer than we did last year.this mild winter and excellent mast crop will cause the local poulation to swell considerably.

germain

airborn,I don't take the article as blaming the hunter on reductions but blaming too many anterless tags being handed out.We the hunters of PA do not have a lawsuit against the game commission.However there is an organization that does have a lawsuit which I'm not a member of.

chartboy and Doug,I did visit the DEC website and their postion seems to be the same as the article above.I assume they have biologists on the payroll.

Doug,here's my problem.The low deer numbers in places like Perry county,juniata,etc in the south where the winters aren't as severe has the same low deer numbers as the northern counties.The thing that these areas with low deer numbers has is public land.I know places in Lancaster county and Perry county that are loaded with deer.But it's protected private land.But on the SGL's in these counties the deer populations are very low.Same with the tusc state forest in Perry.As I have said before a few years back while grouse hunting the second season there were left over acorns all over the place.Very very few deer sign though.It's all about overharvesting.
Take a ride some time down greenwood road.Spot along that road where the land is posted.Then go out to the mosh.state forest.You'll see at least five times the numbers of deer on that private land.On both sides of greenwood there is a small narrow bit of private land then it's mosh.forest with the same habitat as out on 322.Now I don't doubt you when you say you found dead deer from the winter.I was seeing that 25 years ago in Potter county yet the numbers never got near as low as they are now.Nobody can ever convince me that herd reduction wasn't responsible for 99% of the crash.It all comes down to access and overharvesting.
For the record I'm not asking for 50 deer a day and I won't say there's no deer.I personally like hunting in an area with 20-25 DPSM.Makes things fun.

DougE

Germain,the habitat is pretty bad throughout most of Rockton mountain.I remember back in 1992 I drove that road every night on my way home from work.Most nights I'd easily see 100 deer from the322 intersection until Mitch's restaurant.That was way too many deer and they cleaned up the understory leaving no browse.

Don't get me wrong,the hunters killed enough deer to reduce the population.I won't deny that for a second but the drop in recrutment also played a huge role in this area.