NyDeer

I hunt state land, and feel the approach of improving the herd with DMP's and Antler Restrictions are not a balanced approach to helping improve the deer herd. These are 'wait & see' what develops systems, which improve the numbers of the herd, but not the overall health of the herd. In the Catskills, where I hunt, and the Adirondacks, which I have hunted twice, these methods are one sided, looking at the end product, increased numbers, without giving consideration to the supply side of the equation to get there, nutrition. In western New York, there is sufficient agriculture to help feed the herd back, however in the Catskills & Adirondacks, quantity & quality of feed isn't there for a truly healthy herd. I think the DEC should look into habitat improvement, like the planting of mast bearing trees/food plots, similar to the private outfitters/ranches do. I feel a healthy herd is a herd with proper nutrition, and proper buck/doe balance. Look at the NWTF or Ducks Unlimited. These organizations exist to improve their sport by working with dec's, and they work well.. The turkey populations have exploded everywhere, and DU has saved & restored wetlands nationally. They provide an organized volunteer work force to the DECs to get these projects done. Do you think the DEC should be including habitat improvement in its plans? Would an organization for the benefit of a quality, healthy deer herd in NY help?

BuckAlley

Actually I believe the DEC looks at its many state lands, and sets up a timber managment plan that would benefit all aspects of the wild. Then select marks tree's for cutting. I've seen this done in many state lands. They mark tree's of least benefit, Den tree's, and tree's to cut but leave for cover. I'm not sure if they do much planting of new tree's as food sources, but that would be beneficial. I do know Soil & Water offers seedling tree's at reduced costs to the public every spring. I believe they come from a Saratoga nursery. I've bought a few in the past myself.

doughboysigep

FYI - actually most SWCDs get their trees from private nurseries. DEC has their own seedling sales that come from Saratoga

Airborneguy

Honestly, I agree that our management program is not the best. But on the other hand, I like our licensing system and the fact that I can definately hunt every year. In the past 2 years, I have started hunting mroe and more private land, and honestly, my perception of our deer herd changed a lot. While our antler situation is horrible, there are plenty of deer out there if you are in the right place. My biggest suggestion was to implant some deer with superior genetics from places like Iowa and Illinios to possibly improve our gene pool.

AndesNY2

I agree, if the DEC truly wants to increase the herd they need to be much more proactive in their habitat management plan. The area where I hunt in theCatskills, I have yet to see the DEC or anyone from the state selectively timberthe several thousand acres thathave reverted to mature, unproductive forest. I believe it is one of themany contributing factorsthat has lead tosuch adramatic decline in deer numbers in this area.Limited browse and cover, ensures that deer numbers will not able to rebound even if DMP's are eliminated.

Airborneguy

I believe part of the issue is the "Forever Wild" designation on certain areas. If I remember correctly, doesn't that mean that they do absolutely nothing on that land other than stop peple from destroying it? In other words, they don't clear trees, deadfall, replant, or anything like that.

NyDeer

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dlf/publands/artxiv.htmlForest Preserve - Article XIV NYS Constitution
I read it saying for the state land owned within the Adirondack & Catskill parks, Section 1: 'nor shall the timber thereon be sold, removed or destroyed'; this severely limit the activity to help the herd. Then it goes on to say about lands outside of the two parks, and land aquired later will be managed: Forest and wildlife conservation are hereby declared to be policies of the state... Furthermore it states the list of restrictions on section one are removed except for this: lands shall not be leased, sold or exchanged, or be taken by any corporation, public or private. So, if I'm reading this correctly, outside of the parks, it's permissable for the state to thin out the trees and plant vegetation to promote wildlife. I just heard a statistic that hunting is a 10 billion dollar a year industry in the US alone, which we've all been contributing to for many years. I would think the DEC would want to get a larger slice of that pie thru a more healthy deer herd, producing nice bucks statewide, to draw in more out of state hunters to feed the economy & coffers of the state.

Bill Yox

One thing the DEC is NOT going to do is transplant deer from other states, thats a guarantee! With the CWD scare, and the fact that one of the states mentioned, Illinois, has already had a positive, it wont happen. As for the DEC planting mast trees, thats a 30 year plan for many trees to mature. Id say with all the private land out there, and the rise in popularity of food plots, etc, and no improvement in the herd, that perhaps the problem lies elsewhere.

nyorange

"The area where I hunt in theCatskills, I have yet to see the DEC or anyone from the state selectively timberthe several thousand acres thathave reverted to mature, unproductive forest. "

The state does want to help and if you check the regs you'll see that they will in fact provide a forestry/environmental expert free of charge to anyone for an evaluation on the best way to utilize their private land for wildlife trees etc. HOWEVER, you guys must realize that your idea of mature unproductive forest is a little out of whack with reality, while it may not be optimal for deer its is productive and does provide for a whole lot of other animals. As far as being mature, the real question is mature when compared to what? When the forest is filled with true mature oak trees, maybe then you could consider trimming them down. All of the Catskills /Adirondacks and basically the entire eastern US to the Ohio valley has been clearcut in the recent past. You have never seen nor can you probably imagine a mature forest. A forest where the trees are over two hundred years old with some giants topping 400 years old.(old oak proved for size reference so you mistakenly won'tcall the Catskills pencil farm a mature forest.this example is spread out but other species and other oaks grow more vertical. Imagine a forest where the ground around the trees is dark due to their canopy effect?)

After me or my children/grandchildren have experienced such a thing then you can consider chopping some down for deer. Can you imagine a forest of such beasts? The parks we got now are filled with baby trees and you already want to cut them down. Please reconsider, more than enough deer on private lands and with some good forest management like liming/fertilizer thestate land forests will produce tons of mast. Lets see what the forests can do before we start cutting them down.

NyDeer

More than enough deer on private lands doesn't help Joe Public, nor does it help get new hunters involved, unless you open your lands to them..

In the Catskills, the problem I'm talking about is quality, not neccesarily quanity. Personally, I'd rather take does as needed and a nick buck every 5 years than a nonstop streak of spikes & forks, and I'm sure others feel the same way. Empy handed years are acceptable to me. I understand that the trees are second growth, and it does take years to mature into full mast production. The liming/fertilizer idea sounds like a good one to me, enhance what we have. Anything to me is better than just doing the A/R programs.
In the Adirondacks however there are a few spots of untouched old growth, and deer are still far & few thruout the park, but big, due to old age.. In addition, the Beech blight wiped out alot of the mature beech tree stands, so it will be many years before a large beech mast year. The browse line along the Long Lake shoreline was like 5 feet high. That tells me that the deer are scrounging for nourishment. Deer with access to improved nutrition have been known to drop 2 fawns a cycle, greatly improving the deer numbers. Maybe a statewide analysis of the forests' nutrient defficiencies is the answer, and a nourishment program implimented.