PA HARVEST NUMBERS
03-18-2006, 07:06 AM
#31
Typical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Altoona,PA
Posts: 679
RE: PA HARVEST NUMBERS
patrkyhntr- boths sides of this topic has idiots. for the record i send in my report cards. one thing the PGC could do would have every hunter send in a card, even if they didnt get a deer. if they dont send it in they dont get to hunt the next year.
enough of the cards though its important, we still have deer numbers going down. you might ask me "what part of HR dont you understand" well i do understand, and i was against it from the get go. i've always been for AR but i think they could take it to another level. they can say lower tags was the reason for the deer numbers but we still had buck numbers down, and for them to say weather was a reason is just crap. how many years are they going to use that one. im not a "sportsman" who says theres no deer, but i am one that sees danger in the future. i would just hope that in areas where "sportsman" say the numbers are low that the PGC will reduce the number of tags.
enough of the cards though its important, we still have deer numbers going down. you might ask me "what part of HR dont you understand" well i do understand, and i was against it from the get go. i've always been for AR but i think they could take it to another level. they can say lower tags was the reason for the deer numbers but we still had buck numbers down, and for them to say weather was a reason is just crap. how many years are they going to use that one. im not a "sportsman" who says theres no deer, but i am one that sees danger in the future. i would just hope that in areas where "sportsman" say the numbers are low that the PGC will reduce the number of tags.
03-18-2006, 07:29 AM
#32
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location:
Posts: 317
RE: PA HARVEST NUMBERS
I agree with your idea of requiring every hunter to submit a hunting report card at the end of the season, or to do so online. I propose that the penalty for this would be that an individual not submitting a hunting report would not be allowed to purchase a hunting license for the following year.
Further, I agree with you that there are idiots on both sides of the AR/HR debate. It should be past debate now. We have AR, and we have also reduced the herd. Perhaps it was for good reason and perhaps not. Some on both sides of that question are also idiots.
While nobody who read the entire Audubon report, or any of the tremendous volume of literature other than that on the subject, would deny that there are problems in our forests, there are those who simply don't care. All they want is to be able to kill a deer, any deer, with the least amount of effort. Those days are gone. If you want to be a successful hunter it will take real effort coupled with a good bit of luck. I don't fear this, nor should you. What you should fear is the mentality that the forests are there to produce deer for hunters and the rest of the ecosystem can go to he11. This view is worse than shortsighted, but many hold it, and will hold the blame commission hostage until they get what they want. That is what I fear, not harder hunting, my friend.
Further, I agree with you that there are idiots on both sides of the AR/HR debate. It should be past debate now. We have AR, and we have also reduced the herd. Perhaps it was for good reason and perhaps not. Some on both sides of that question are also idiots.
While nobody who read the entire Audubon report, or any of the tremendous volume of literature other than that on the subject, would deny that there are problems in our forests, there are those who simply don't care. All they want is to be able to kill a deer, any deer, with the least amount of effort. Those days are gone. If you want to be a successful hunter it will take real effort coupled with a good bit of luck. I don't fear this, nor should you. What you should fear is the mentality that the forests are there to produce deer for hunters and the rest of the ecosystem can go to he11. This view is worse than shortsighted, but many hold it, and will hold the blame commission hostage until they get what they want. That is what I fear, not harder hunting, my friend.
03-19-2006, 07:50 PM
#33
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,149
RE: PA HARVEST NUMBERS
A couple of comments,
first in response to Denny's post concerning the harvest rates in WV and NY.Both states have admitted to overharvesting and plan on reducing tags accordingly.WV had the biggest problems with the over harvesting on state lands,the same problem we have here in PA.
My second comment is about the decline in harvest rates in 2G.I hunt southern 2G but know alot of people who hunt in southern Potter county.Most of these guys are good experienced hunters and have been saying the deer numbers are getting dangerously low.The 25% decrease in bucks harvested in that WMU confirms what they have been saying.And this is a 25% decrease over 2004 which was down also!
My third comment is about report cards.
All hunters should fill them out,no excuse.If we got even 80-90% participation there wouldn't be any estimating in the harvests.And most likely the current method of estimating is high.
first in response to Denny's post concerning the harvest rates in WV and NY.Both states have admitted to overharvesting and plan on reducing tags accordingly.WV had the biggest problems with the over harvesting on state lands,the same problem we have here in PA.
My second comment is about the decline in harvest rates in 2G.I hunt southern 2G but know alot of people who hunt in southern Potter county.Most of these guys are good experienced hunters and have been saying the deer numbers are getting dangerously low.The 25% decrease in bucks harvested in that WMU confirms what they have been saying.And this is a 25% decrease over 2004 which was down also!
My third comment is about report cards.
All hunters should fill them out,no excuse.If we got even 80-90% participation there wouldn't be any estimating in the harvests.And most likely the current method of estimating is high.
03-20-2006, 03:36 PM
#34
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pa.
Posts: 554
RE: PA HARVEST NUMBERS
ORIGINAL: patrkyhntr
I agree with your idea of requiring every hunter to submit a hunting report card at the end of the season, or to do so online. I propose that the penalty for this would be that an individual not submitting a hunting report would not be allowed to purchase a hunting license for the following year.
Further, I agree with you that there are idiots on both sides of the AR/HR debate. It should be past debate now. We have AR, and we have also reduced the herd. Perhaps it was for good reason and perhaps not. Some on both sides of that question are also idiots.
While nobody who read the entire Audubon report, or any of the tremendous volume of literature other than that on the subject, would deny that there are problems in our forests, there are those who simply don't care. All they want is to be able to kill a deer, any deer, with the least amount of effort. Those days are gone. If you want to be a successful hunter it will take real effort coupled with a good bit of luck. I don't fear this, nor should you. What you should fear is the mentality that the forests are there to produce deer for hunters and the rest of the ecosystem can go to he11. This view is worse than shortsighted, but many hold it, and will hold the blame commission hostage until they get what they want. That is what I fear, not harder hunting, my friend.
I agree with your idea of requiring every hunter to submit a hunting report card at the end of the season, or to do so online. I propose that the penalty for this would be that an individual not submitting a hunting report would not be allowed to purchase a hunting license for the following year.
Further, I agree with you that there are idiots on both sides of the AR/HR debate. It should be past debate now. We have AR, and we have also reduced the herd. Perhaps it was for good reason and perhaps not. Some on both sides of that question are also idiots.
While nobody who read the entire Audubon report, or any of the tremendous volume of literature other than that on the subject, would deny that there are problems in our forests, there are those who simply don't care. All they want is to be able to kill a deer, any deer, with the least amount of effort. Those days are gone. If you want to be a successful hunter it will take real effort coupled with a good bit of luck. I don't fear this, nor should you. What you should fear is the mentality that the forests are there to produce deer for hunters and the rest of the ecosystem can go to he11. This view is worse than shortsighted, but many hold it, and will hold the blame commission hostage until they get what they want. That is what I fear, not harder hunting, my friend.
03-20-2006, 05:03 PM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: PA HARVEST NUMBERS
The guys who play games with report cards and fight the GC on everything had better be happy the when DCNR becomes in charge of hunting and there is no more GC. Just think of it...game lands sold, deer gone, hunting no more, Mmmmmmmmmm.
"look at those purdy flowers and the birdies that go "Tweet Tweet"!
"Don't ya just love a dead, mature forest floor?"
"look at those purdy flowers and the birdies that go "Tweet Tweet"!
"Don't ya just love a dead, mature forest floor?"
03-21-2006, 07:54 AM
#37
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location:
Posts: 317
RE: PA HARVEST NUMBERS
ORIGINAL: lost horn
AUDUBON, That's all I needed to hear, I read their report they blame evorything on the "woods rats" deer. The Audubon is anti hunting. They can stick that report where the sun don't shine!!!!!!!!!!!!
AUDUBON, That's all I needed to hear, I read their report they blame evorything on the "woods rats" deer. The Audubon is anti hunting. They can stick that report where the sun don't shine!!!!!!!!!!!!
03-21-2006, 08:27 AM
#38
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: PA HARVEST NUMBERS
Oh boy, I have been waiting for another PA deer debate thread to pop up. Luckily, everyone is remaining fairly civil unlike past years. 
I sincerely do not understand what the debate is about. Harvest report cards, by law, must be turned in within 10 days of the kill. Not doing so is breaking the law. Where is the confusion?
If you do not like the law then you need to share your opinion with the people that have the power to change it. Why you wouldn't want to know how many deer are harvested each year is a bit beyond me though. How would anyone effectively manage the herd if they were unaware of how many deer are out there as well as how many are killed each season?
Now, if it is the actually reporting method that is the problem then I would love to hear some viable alternatives. Personally, I fall into the group that believes we should have to turn a tag in before getting another at least in some areas and in reference to specific situations. That would definitley increase the percentage of reported harvests.
I sincerely do not understand what the debate is about. Harvest report cards, by law, must be turned in within 10 days of the kill. Not doing so is breaking the law. Where is the confusion?
If you do not like the law then you need to share your opinion with the people that have the power to change it. Why you wouldn't want to know how many deer are harvested each year is a bit beyond me though. How would anyone effectively manage the herd if they were unaware of how many deer are out there as well as how many are killed each season?
Now, if it is the actually reporting method that is the problem then I would love to hear some viable alternatives. Personally, I fall into the group that believes we should have to turn a tag in before getting another at least in some areas and in reference to specific situations. That would definitley increase the percentage of reported harvests.
03-21-2006, 10:03 AM
#39
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 522
RE: PA HARVEST NUMBERS
I gotta nickel sez them what refuse to comply now, will still figure out some way to not comply with whatever reporting system someone else comes up with.
[8D]
States with mandatory check stations also have some problems with those that refuse to cooperate, so there is still a "fudge factor" that must be computed to arrive at their figures. Read elsewhere that Michigan is takeing steps to change their system and have admitted they have hadproblems with non-compliance.
Our system in PA is not without shortcomings, but those that make their living at such things, have decreed that our system is within their standards of statistical accuracy and is a valid system for calculating deer harvest numbers. I have never had a problem taking a few minutes to fill out the postcard and sending it in, don't understand why anyone else would have a problem complyingwith the system.
[8D]
States with mandatory check stations also have some problems with those that refuse to cooperate, so there is still a "fudge factor" that must be computed to arrive at their figures. Read elsewhere that Michigan is takeing steps to change their system and have admitted they have hadproblems with non-compliance.
Our system in PA is not without shortcomings, but those that make their living at such things, have decreed that our system is within their standards of statistical accuracy and is a valid system for calculating deer harvest numbers. I have never had a problem taking a few minutes to fill out the postcard and sending it in, don't understand why anyone else would have a problem complyingwith the system.
03-22-2006, 09:52 AM
#40
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location:
Posts: 317
RE: PA HARVEST NUMBERS
If what you are saying, Denny, is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," I agree. I would like to see some minor changes made in the license year and the reporting system. I would like to see point of sales licence issuing. As a part of that sale, the purchaser would have to answer questions about his hunting success the past year. For example, he would have to state whether or not he harvested deer, how many, and in what WMU. The same for turkeys.
If everyone would just send in a postcard, nobody would have to think up changes. I guess it is just too hard for some.
If everyone would just send in a postcard, nobody would have to think up changes. I guess it is just too hard for some.