jhoffman

Elkcrazy8 - If you get the most current issue of Fur Fish and Game magazine - there is an article that is about the Wolves in ID and in that article it state that the Federal Goverment has turned management of the wolves in ID over to the state.

That is were I got my info from and if I am wrong so is the article - just wanted you to know my source of info.

Elkcrazy8

jhoffman, the so called turn over is a highly debated subject in Idaho right now. The article is partially correct. The state is "in control" however Idaho has to ask for permission to dispatch the animals. Kinda like a drivers permit only allows you to drive with your folks in the car. The ID fish and game is trying to get the go ahead to kill 75% of the wolves in the Lolo zone right now. The elk heards have been hammered hard. There is alot of poltical crap going on right now, and there are many sportsmans groups keeping a close eye on the situation. The greenies are doing all they can to stop it. I keep seeing a picture of the scared little wolf with ice on its face pleeding to help save the wolves. Give me a break. Those suckers don't look like that when they have claimed an elk kill.

deerslayer223

great wolves just what we need[:@]. The deer herd is in trouble the way it is and there are way to many coyotes running around. I bet the PGC doesnt even prosecute those people.[:'(]

patrkyhntr

How many coyotes have you killed this winter? The hunting regulations on them are about as liberal as you can get. Do you think the blame commission should kill them for you? And one last thing. Where do you get this "The deer herd is in trouble," stuff? There are enough deer out there to have good hunting. If you aren't seeing enough where you hunt, change areas. The problem is that you have to hunt them now. You will never see the herds of fifty deer you saw thirty years ago, not ever again. Get used to the idea and start becoming a hunter. That is what it is all about.

mlo3135127

patrkyhntr, I agree with what you say. I am not picking on any one person here, but there are so many out there that complain about coyotes and do nothing about them. These guys hunt and kill as many deer as they can and blame the low deer population all on the coyotes. What about the deer that hunters kill? doesn't that lower the population? These days hunters kill more does than ever and thats the fastest way to lower the deer population. I love a high deer population as much as anyone but the population has been to high for to long. In alot of areas the winter brouse has been devastated beond repair. Here is a picture from where I live and hunt.

patrkyhntr

That was exactly my point, mlo. They enjoyed the abundant doe tags so long as they were the ones doing some of the killing. If they had practiced some restraint and not participated, they might have something to say. The blame commission didn't kill all those deer, and the coyotes were here back then too. If they really believe coyotes are a problem, why not do some hunting for them? Coyote hunting is much harder than deer hunting for a couple of reasons. One is that coyotes are much smarter, sometimes smarter than the hunters who hunt them. A second reason is that there are not nearly so many coyotes as some would have you believe. They sure don't outnumber deer. If anyone thinks they do he must have flunked high school biology, or at least the part where they taught about food and energy pyramids.

patrkyhntr

I would like to add a few more thoughts on the subject of deer. At one time there were way too many deer in most areas of the northcentral part of Pennsylvania. The browse situation was far worse than the photo you posted, mlo. If one hunkered down, he could see for several hundred yards in the woods because there was no browse whaqtsoever within four feet of the ground. Even in the southcentral mountains where I hunt now, the situation was close to critical. For example, the songbirds that nest in the understory have nearly disappeared. Like the canary in a mine, the birds will tell you what is wrong with the environment.

livbucks

Right on the money!
SOME coyotes will appear to be MANY. They never stop moving and snooping, so they leave alot of sign per animal. The problem is that SOME can be too many. We really need to hunt them more. The coyotes didn't reduce the herd to today's state, hunters did. Problem is that coyotes will keep deer numbers low due to predation on fawns, although they will take a mature deer if they get a good opportunity to do so, I have seen that personally. They will tear the tendon on the deer's rear leg and then run it down uintil it can't go anymore. I've seen it firsthand.

Windwalker7

Since we are talking about coyotes, I'll throw this into the mix. I went on a moose hunt in Newfoundland this past October. We talked alot with our guides and covered all kinds of subjects. They were telling us about the problems they have with coyotes. They have NO deer in Newfoundland, so instead, the yotes go after caribou. They chase the caribou and bite at the tendons on the back legs. The problem is, that before they finish off the first caibou, they go after another, then another, because they're so many there together.They end up killing several. The ones that were attacked initially, eventually die from their cripplingwounds. The guides insist that the yotes kill for fun also and don't eat all that they kill. The coyotes take a huge toll on calves butalso kill full grown caribou too. They really hate them up there. They even want wolves to be stocked to help control coyote populations. I ask them, aren't they worried that the wolves would take a toll on the caribou and moose, and their reply was, " Wolves eat what they kill and kill only enough to survive. The coyotes cripple so many for the one they do killand the wolveswill kill the coyotes because they are a competing predator."
Here's the funny part. The same rumors we hear about coyotes being stocked here to control deer populations, go on up there, about yotes being stocked to lower caribou populations.Funny, huh?Our guides don't believe they were stocked but they do wonder why all of a sudden there is an explosion ofthe coyote population. They saida couple years ago there weren't any coyotes.

patrkyhntr

The first few years I went deer hunting I was not very successful. In fact it was not until 1964 that I took my first deer in Pennsylvania after hunting ten years. Sure it was frustrating at times, but I loved every minute of the time I spent in the outdoors, except perhaps for the time my feet were freezing. When that happened, I would build a fire and warm them and then go back to hunting. From what I read on this board and the huntingpa board, many would have quit after having my experience the first ten years. During the next twenty years I took an occasional buck and a few does when I drew an antlerless tag. More years went by without our having venison in the freezer than years when we did. Still, I enjoyed what I was doing, and I was learning how to do it right. Except for the first few years I had nobody to teach me or mentor me in the ways of hunting. I had to learn it all by myself. It is this way now for me with coyotes.

I have read as much as I can find on coyote hunting, and spend some considerable time doing it, and to date I have seen one coyote in the wild. It didn't come in close enough for me to kill it with the shotgun I was carrying (it was spring gobbler season). So I guess I am as good at hunting coyotes as I was at hunting deer when I began hunting them. Maybe I am not even that good (LOL).

Predators (by the way, we are predators, too) kill their prey. Coyotes are predators. Wolves are predators. Mountain lions are predators. Man is a predtor. We use rifles, shotguns, and arrows. Sometimes our kills are not squeeky clean. Sometimes those of the other predators aren't either. As sportsmen, we try our darndest to make a clean kill every time. The other predators don't have artificial ethics systems like ours. They kill by whatever means possible so that they can eat. We have the luxury of being able to make up for a bad day of hunting by going to the supermarket and buying a steak that someone else has killed for us. If a coyote doesn't kill today, he doesn't eat today.

I respect coyotes just as I respect deer. They are worthy opponents in the game of hunting. To me, taking a coyote would be an accomplishment far greater than taking an eight-point buck. One of these days, I will do it. When I do, my taxidermist Mac will do a full body mount of the darned thing.

I guess I am posting this because I don't share the opinion some seem to have that coyotes are evil. They are not. They are more a part of nature than us hunters are. If we feel that there are too many of them, we need to do what we are charged with doing as hunters, that being restoring the balance of nature. Wouldn't going out hunting coyotes today be more fun than sitting at the computer? Come to think of it, --------