T_in_PA3

They will be the same for many years. What will change is the anterless allocations. Gone are the days of 2 week buck season followed by a 3 day anterless season. Talk about mis-management. [:'(]

livbucks

Hey T,
Why was there only a 3 day season? Because there were so many does and fawns that it really only took about a half hour to get your doe and go home...3 days was more than enough. But most guys would hunt hard for that buck for 2 weeks and probably not get one. When I was a kid, it was ROUTINE to see 30-40 does and fawns in a day up at camp. BUT...if someone in our groupwas fortunate enough to geta buck, it was usually a spike or forkie. I remember when a little 7 point would win the big buck contests. What a joke! There is a balance to be struck and PA is having some difficulty. I know that when the herd is reduced in the big woods, it can sometimes get tough to see a deer. The big groups of guys are all gone and died off. Nobody to push the deer around and keep 'em moving. That is when you must change your hunting methods.

jcchartboy

Bowhunter2117,

I see that you failed to answer a single question posed to you concerning the actual facts about what you call "gross mismanagment"

It is becoming clear you know very little about the actual process of deer managment.

.......

As an aside, less than 40% of thetotal harvestnumbers reported by the state are actually reported by hunters. That means "estimates" are atotal of 60% of the states harvest.

Seems to me the real problem is PA hunters being too lazy to report their deer to the game department.

Why don't these peoplethat areso concerned about deer hunting in Pa start worrying about the basics of hunter responsibilty....reporting your game...instead of blaming the biologists for having difficulty in estimating "true" harvest rates.

I would like to know....from each Pa hunter who has posted negativly about the game department, have you reported every deer you have taken over the years? If not, consider yourself part of the problem....

PA GOBBLER

I dont think ive posted anything negative about the PGC as whole,fact i thinktheyhave donea lot of good.but i have posted problems about the deer mang. plan. so ill answer your question. yes i have reported every deer and turkey ive gotten over the years. again i dont think the people that are soCONCERNEDabout the deer herd are the ones causing the problems i think thereare a lot of hunters that are 1-5 day a year hunters and could care less till the season starts.
i would like to know people that are on here that are for more doe kills, are you talking about the state as a whole?? or just areas that hold a lot of deer.

livbucks

I know that in suburban areas, there could be alot more taken and no ill effects to the hunting experience. In the big woods areas, the herd has been reduced a little too much and yes, I blame greedy 1-5 day hunters as much as one could blame the GC. I think that there is a higher natural mortality and lower reproduction in big woods areas that we sometimes disregard. I think that hunters have been a little more efficient than the GC anticipated, also. I do not think that we should return to the days when one could see 30-40 does and fawns a day in buck season, but RARELY a buck at all. That was mismanagement at it's worst. We need to balance the buck/does ratio, meet the carrying capacity and please the 1-5 day hunter.....What an impossible task! The tradition in PA placed too much emphasis on getting ANY legal buck every year over raising quality animals, to the detriment of the herd. The traditions in PA advanced the concept that guys would take one day off of work, get their little spike, and be back working at the mill on Tuesday morning. In the '70's, when I started hunting, there was never anyone hunting in the big woods after first day of buck. Then they would come back and bang a doe first day of antlerless and once again, be back at the mill next day. That is the product we were producing then.

jf5

Mike, Do you really think this is the cause for VT deer demise?? VT resisted takign does in the 50's and 60's and experienced a severe populationcrash in the late 60's because of it. That was the first blow. Now, allot of VT's habitat is grown up, and does not have the carrying capacity it had 40 years ago. Add a few harsh winters and you have low densities.

livbucks

I agree. You cannot raise a good deer herd on rough bark. We are getting to that point in PA. Nobody wants to let the loggers in. They blame the deer for overbrowsing in a mature forest with barren dirt floors. Cut some dang trees down...widespread devastation is what gets nature in gear. They cut a tiny section and when the deer eat the half dozen new saplings in1,000,000 acres of forest, they say "SEE,THE DEER ARE TO BLAME"

T_in_PA3

Time enough to get a doe but we were not managing the deer herd at that point. We were not taking enough anterless deer year to year to keep a stable herd. This allowed the herd to multiply way beyond what the land could sustain while not causing damage. You will never see a 3 day anterless season again.

RUFNECK

i did a little research on this subject and found out by dropping doe pop. the deer go into survival mating this can take 5-7 years to show improvements but is very effective when the doe pop. of a herd is dropped the remaining does mate more often and birth only does by having more does and less bucks more of the prize bucks reproduce and eventuly create a larger more powerfull herd let your wm people do there job and you reap the bennys

livbucks

Exactly why PA had the trmendous amount of spikes running around years ago. Too many deer. I have not even seen a spike in the last couple years which is very strange. All first year bucks that I have seen lately are forks or 6 points. It is even common to see a first year 8 point where I hunt, albeit a small and thin rack.