To all you guys posting your land do to the "new "dangers of hunting.
10-11-2005, 05:28 PM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
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RE: To all you guys posting your land do to the "new "dangers of hunting.
ORIGINAL: BigJohn H
Here is the way I look at it, I go to the range 2-3 times a week, I reloadall my ammunition, I know where my rifle is going to hit
Here is the way I look at it, I go to the range 2-3 times a week, I reloadall my ammunition, I know where my rifle is going to hit
JC, I see what you mean about the "hunt" I am also a bow hunter, when I bow hunt it is great to call in a deer close enough to shoot it with my bow but when it comes to gun season I want the best implement at my disposal to fill my tags/freezer.
The problem is many people don't understand what it means to hunt. I think allowing people to go into the woods with a weapon capable of taking deer at such extended distances, with little or no hunting skill, will futher attract the wrong kind of people into the sport.
Hunters often have a hard enough time with public image the way it is. The last thing we need is random people withrifles in the woods calling theselves hunters simply because they can shoot at a target a 1/4 of a mile away.
10-12-2005, 03:16 PM
#22
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Western New York
Posts: 606
RE: To all you guys posting your land do to the "new "dangers of hunting.
"that makes you the exception " ? I disagree rifle ammo ,even if you don't reload , is cheaper than sabots meaning more people will take the time to practice MORE with their rifles I know from personal expereance last yearI shot ten rounds with my shotgun before deer season this year i have already shot over 50 with my .06
10-12-2005, 05:14 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
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RE: To all you guys posting your land do to the "new "dangers of hunting.
John
You missed the point completetly....
There was never a discussion of rifle practice vs shotgun.
He stated..
As I stated.....That makes himan exception...
Very few hunters spend that kind of time with their firearm, regardless of what they shoot..
From what BigJohn is saying, I would assume he shoots more in a week than you mention that you shot in the past year.
That is an exceptional amount of shooting....
You missed the point completetly....
There was never a discussion of rifle practice vs shotgun.
He stated..
I go to the range 2-3 times a week,I know where my rifleis going to hit
Very few hunters spend that kind of time with their firearm, regardless of what they shoot..
From what BigJohn is saying, I would assume he shoots more in a week than you mention that you shot in the past year.
That is an exceptional amount of shooting....
10-13-2005, 10:05 AM
#24
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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Posts: 130
RE: To all you guys posting your land do to the "new "dangers of hunting.
I have been reloaind for about 1-1/2yrs, in that time I have reload between 900~100 30-06 rounds, a little over 300 .223s and about 1500 22-250 rounds. All of the 30-06 rounds were shot @ the range, between my wife and I the same can be said for the .223s we haven't had them long. about 1200 of the 22-250 were shot at the range both for practice and in competition the rest were shooting a woodchucks.
As far as the cost goes it is irrelevent to me the cost, I would reload my ammo if it cost me the same as buying factory ammo. I weigh every bullet to make sure that they are within a 10th of a grain in load LOTs, I weigh every powder load so it is exact in every shell, these are things that the factory does not do. I use hornady bullets because they are all with in the tolerance level I REQUIRE, I spoke to winchester about their lack in this department and was told "nobody is any better" that took them off the list.
All of this is coming to the point that because some people do not shoot their weapons as they should (I am not saying you Johnl) but there are people who put their weapons in the cabinet and don't take them out until next year, and people like myself are being told they cannot hunt on peoples land because rifles are unsafe THAT IS WRONG!!!
As far as the cost goes it is irrelevent to me the cost, I would reload my ammo if it cost me the same as buying factory ammo. I weigh every bullet to make sure that they are within a 10th of a grain in load LOTs, I weigh every powder load so it is exact in every shell, these are things that the factory does not do. I use hornady bullets because they are all with in the tolerance level I REQUIRE, I spoke to winchester about their lack in this department and was told "nobody is any better" that took them off the list.
All of this is coming to the point that because some people do not shoot their weapons as they should (I am not saying you Johnl) but there are people who put their weapons in the cabinet and don't take them out until next year, and people like myself are being told they cannot hunt on peoples land because rifles are unsafe THAT IS WRONG!!!
10-13-2005, 02:02 PM
#25
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Posts: 224
RE: To all you guys posting your land do to the "new "dangers of hunting.
ORIGINAL: BigJohn H
and people like myself are being told they cannot hunt on peoples land because rifles are unsafe THAT IS WRONG!!!
and people like myself are being told they cannot hunt on peoples land because rifles are unsafe THAT IS WRONG!!!
What folks are saying, and whatno rational person could would disagree with, is that,due to their extended range, rifles are less safe than shotguns in general.
Noone is talking about any one individual being less safe, and to imply that is myopic. It is simply a theoretical comparison of the safety (or lack thereof) of projectiles with extended range.
You can argue with that, but you will always lose (and look stupid at the same time.) If you consider the increased area that a projectile could potentially cover from a high power rifle (John's 30-06, for example) versus grampa's Browning Auto5 12 gauge, the difference is stark. Remember, we can calculate the area of the circle that would be comprised of each weapon's maximum range to compare thedifference in "risk", and the increase in area with each additional yard of range is squared.
The same range that makes a rifle "a more efficient hunting tool" makes it an increased safety risk.
To argue that is pointless.
10-13-2005, 04:26 PM
#26
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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Posts: 130
RE: To all you guys posting your land do to the "new "dangers of hunting.
The inherent risk is only when the rifle is in the hands of the same problem hunters, if you put my 30-06 on a table next to grampas browning and everyone looks at them neither is dangerous, but you get an idiot who picks either one of them up and waives it around the room without having even checked the breach to see if there is a round in it either of them become dangerous. If a hunter follows the rules of firearm safety and spends ample time with their weapon of choice there isNO danger (except to the deer) for other hunters or anyone else. As I live by the firearm safty rules andI shoot often I should not be told by other people that I cannot use a rifle to deer hunt. This also smacks of an antigun atempt to supress a type of gun to get rid of all of them.
10-13-2005, 05:55 PM
#27
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Posts: 224
RE: To all you guys posting your land do to the "new "dangers of hunting.
You are being stubborn.
A rifle is inherently more dangerous than a shotgun, which is inherently more dangerous than a pellet gun, regardless of who is holding it, because of power and the extended ranges. Simple logic.
You can and should be told what you are allowed to hunt with, and when you will be allowed to hunt with it, as that is the law.Absence of law is anarchy -Are you an anarchist or what?
I will have very little patience with anyone who tries to equate the application of physics and reason with anti-gun lobbyists. Just because someone has a different opinion than you does not make them the enemy. Grow up.
A rifle is inherently more dangerous than a shotgun, which is inherently more dangerous than a pellet gun, regardless of who is holding it, because of power and the extended ranges. Simple logic.
You can and should be told what you are allowed to hunt with, and when you will be allowed to hunt with it, as that is the law.Absence of law is anarchy -Are you an anarchist or what?
I will have very little patience with anyone who tries to equate the application of physics and reason with anti-gun lobbyists. Just because someone has a different opinion than you does not make them the enemy. Grow up.
10-13-2005, 09:55 PM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Posts: 1,233
RE: To all you guys posting your land do to the "new "dangers of hunting.
CMA,
I commend you on your use of irrelevant data to try to misleadingly prove your point.
It has been clear for some time during this discussion that the term "powerful", was being used in reference to the maximum range of a firearms projectile.
Of course your comparison in which you try to prove your point has no mention whatsoever of the firearms maximum range!
I also find it interesting that you choose to attempt to make your comparison using one of the most powerful slugs on the market, yet you fail to do the same thing for your rifle projectile. An equivelent comparison would be the Platinum tip in a slug gun vs. something along the lines of a .300 Winchester Magnum.
Too keep this simple...
I will leave you with this question.....If rifles and shotguns are equal killers at equal distances as you falsely attempt to prove, why do rifle ammunition maufacturers give trajectory data out to 500+ yds, when shotgun ammunition manufacturers will only provide such data out to a maximum of 200yds?
I commend you on your use of irrelevant data to try to misleadingly prove your point.
It has been clear for some time during this discussion that the term "powerful", was being used in reference to the maximum range of a firearms projectile.
Of course your comparison in which you try to prove your point has no mention whatsoever of the firearms maximum range!
I also find it interesting that you choose to attempt to make your comparison using one of the most powerful slugs on the market, yet you fail to do the same thing for your rifle projectile. An equivelent comparison would be the Platinum tip in a slug gun vs. something along the lines of a .300 Winchester Magnum.
Too keep this simple...
I will leave you with this question.....If rifles and shotguns are equal killers at equal distances as you falsely attempt to prove, why do rifle ammunition maufacturers give trajectory data out to 500+ yds, when shotgun ammunition manufacturers will only provide such data out to a maximum of 200yds?
10-14-2005, 06:20 AM
#30
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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Posts: 130
RE: To all you guys posting your land do to the "new "dangers of hunting.
ORIGINAL: jcchartboy
Too keep this simple...
I will leave you with this question.....If rifles and shotguns are equal killers at equal distances as you falsely attempt to prove, why do rifle ammunition maufacturers give trajectory data out to 500+ yds, when shotgun ammunition manufacturers will only provide such data out to a maximum of 200yds?
Too keep this simple...
I will leave you with this question.....If rifles and shotguns are equal killers at equal distances as you falsely attempt to prove, why do rifle ammunition maufacturers give trajectory data out to 500+ yds, when shotgun ammunition manufacturers will only provide such data out to a maximum of 200yds?
Thank you for making my point, even @200yds knowing and using all the rules, the rifle is eminently more safe than the shotgun.
you can and should be told what you are allowed to hunt with, and when you will be allowed to hunt with it, as that is the law.Absence of law is anarchy -Are you an anarchist or what?
The law says I can use a rifle to take deer in Tioga county, that is fine and should the law say I cannot that also is fine but, for a group of people who don't know what is going on to say I should not be allowed to hunt with a rifle because they are "Dangerous" is wrong.A .22 longrifle will killout to1 mile, how many people have been shot with onewhile hunting answer NONE, infact no one has been shot with any rifle while hunting in the state ofNY as far back as they are reporting on the DEC website.
So at the end of this season lets just see how many people are shot while hunting and which implement and how many morons there are hunting this season.