IDNR changing state of deer hunting.
03-03-2005, 08:44 AM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,913
RE: IDNR changing state of deer hunting.
I LOVE going to the check station to see other deer, the pictures, the BS that flows.....part of why I enjoy hunting. We check in our deer at an archery shop that has a bar downstairs, nice to have a cold one and talk about your success. I hate change.[&:]
03-03-2005, 11:55 AM
#22
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bureau County Illinois
Posts: 605
RE: IDNR changing state of deer hunting.
I think you will often find that the field reps have very different opinions about the ways things should be done than the politicos in the head office. I know just one CPO around here (Wait, there is only one CPO for the whole area) but I don't know him well enough to know what he thinks about these things. I know the Fish and Wildlife guys I knew out in Montana were not always huge fans of the instructions they got handed each year from the boys in Helena so I assume it is pretty much the same in Illinois.
I do wonder if the DNR is offering this proposal as an apeasement to the state house and outfitters to try to make the lawsuits and house bills go away. I think it bites that they are giving outfitters preference for out of state tags. If they are going to guarentee them 7500 that is one thing (Don't like it) but than to also offer them a shot in a lottery for some of the other 7500? That is just terrible. They should just do what many other states do and make it a lottery for all the tags. Than apply preference points.
I doubt that the elimination of check stations will increase poaching much at all as with the decrease in CPO's they can't cover the ground already. There are tons of rumours around here of people hunting year round for deer but nobody is ever caught even when someone reports them.. From October 1st- Dec 31st I saw a DNR vehicle not one time in this township. Now, I am not saying that they weren't around more than that but I would think, with how much time I spend outside that I would have seen them.
I do wonder if the DNR is offering this proposal as an apeasement to the state house and outfitters to try to make the lawsuits and house bills go away. I think it bites that they are giving outfitters preference for out of state tags. If they are going to guarentee them 7500 that is one thing (Don't like it) but than to also offer them a shot in a lottery for some of the other 7500? That is just terrible. They should just do what many other states do and make it a lottery for all the tags. Than apply preference points.
I doubt that the elimination of check stations will increase poaching much at all as with the decrease in CPO's they can't cover the ground already. There are tons of rumours around here of people hunting year round for deer but nobody is ever caught even when someone reports them.. From October 1st- Dec 31st I saw a DNR vehicle not one time in this township. Now, I am not saying that they weren't around more than that but I would think, with how much time I spend outside that I would have seen them.
03-03-2005, 02:47 PM
#23
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: West Central IL
Posts: 904
RE: IDNR changing state of deer hunting.
for everyone who cares about the "pike county"
as being from Pike county IL, i know how it is, and since you are not, you dont know how it is.so i wouldnt like to hear something from someone who hasnt incounterd it. im not gonna whine and im not gonna cry about it. you just dont understand what its like to have a great hunting area and then to have a big shot come in waving money, and wham, its gone like that. many people dont have as bad as a problem as us, so you dont really understand the frustration and anger this causes. take an example such as this. We have a perfect thickett where many monster bucks have been taken including 195 and 185 class bucks, and now the landowner, who is very much my friend, may have to sell it because the man keeps offering him tons of money.and you wouldnt complain about this? give me a break. what U need to do is stop looking at the county name and start think about the position that people are being put in. This is not about me, this is about the tons of people who you are calling "whiners" money DOES talk, and thats whats hunting is turning into, a game of money, and its a game that most people cant play. so please, dont look at pike county and point fingers and call names to people who are just like you and me, just straight hunters who have many similarities, and love the sport of hunting, but only to be run off by someone with a great amount of money, and dont act like you wouldnt feel the same way if your hunting area was taken away, because i know that you would feel the same way.
as being from Pike county IL, i know how it is, and since you are not, you dont know how it is.so i wouldnt like to hear something from someone who hasnt incounterd it. im not gonna whine and im not gonna cry about it. you just dont understand what its like to have a great hunting area and then to have a big shot come in waving money, and wham, its gone like that. many people dont have as bad as a problem as us, so you dont really understand the frustration and anger this causes. take an example such as this. We have a perfect thickett where many monster bucks have been taken including 195 and 185 class bucks, and now the landowner, who is very much my friend, may have to sell it because the man keeps offering him tons of money.and you wouldnt complain about this? give me a break. what U need to do is stop looking at the county name and start think about the position that people are being put in. This is not about me, this is about the tons of people who you are calling "whiners" money DOES talk, and thats whats hunting is turning into, a game of money, and its a game that most people cant play. so please, dont look at pike county and point fingers and call names to people who are just like you and me, just straight hunters who have many similarities, and love the sport of hunting, but only to be run off by someone with a great amount of money, and dont act like you wouldnt feel the same way if your hunting area was taken away, because i know that you would feel the same way.
03-03-2005, 02:57 PM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Memphis TN USA
Posts: 3,445
RE: IDNR changing state of deer hunting.
DeerSlayer,
You left out the single most important factor in that equation. The landowners rights. Landowners have an oppurtuntiy to increase their income. It's their right to do so whether you like it or not. Sorry that's just the way it is. Many people are not fortunate enough to live in an area like Pike Co. so they spend their money to pay for that oppurtunity. The game doesn't belong to the hunters it belongs to the state. The state says NR should have the oppurtunity to hunt it's deer. The landowner has the right to profit from access to his land? So you're telling me that if you had a chance to double your income you wouldn't do it?
You left out the single most important factor in that equation. The landowners rights. Landowners have an oppurtuntiy to increase their income. It's their right to do so whether you like it or not. Sorry that's just the way it is. Many people are not fortunate enough to live in an area like Pike Co. so they spend their money to pay for that oppurtunity. The game doesn't belong to the hunters it belongs to the state. The state says NR should have the oppurtunity to hunt it's deer. The landowner has the right to profit from access to his land? So you're telling me that if you had a chance to double your income you wouldn't do it?
03-03-2005, 03:00 PM
#25
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 612
RE: IDNR changing state of deer hunting.
Jack Price is with the DNR. Jack Ward was from IFOR and is the one that passed away.
There hasnt been any decrease in CPO's as of yet. Heres what the state of Illinois has for CPO's at the moment.
Region 1 - 23
Region 2 - 33
Region 3 - 18
Region 4 - 28
Region 5 - 21
Special Operations 6
Total is 129 for 102 counties
The problem the CPO's are having right now is they are on a LOW monthly budget for their vehicles. Talked with a CPO the other day that I know pretty well and he is allowed to spend 250 dollars a month right now on his truck. That includes gas, repairs, oil changes ect. So with a 4 wheel drive truck getting 8-9mpg he's getting about 11 days a month of patrolling in right now.
Thats pretty sad[:@]
There hasnt been any decrease in CPO's as of yet. Heres what the state of Illinois has for CPO's at the moment.
Region 1 - 23
Region 2 - 33
Region 3 - 18
Region 4 - 28
Region 5 - 21
Special Operations 6
Total is 129 for 102 counties
The problem the CPO's are having right now is they are on a LOW monthly budget for their vehicles. Talked with a CPO the other day that I know pretty well and he is allowed to spend 250 dollars a month right now on his truck. That includes gas, repairs, oil changes ect. So with a 4 wheel drive truck getting 8-9mpg he's getting about 11 days a month of patrolling in right now.
Thats pretty sad[:@]
03-03-2005, 03:46 PM
#26
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: West Central IL
Posts: 904
RE: IDNR changing state of deer hunting.
if i was in a landowners place i would be forced to do the same thing that they are doing now, and thats exactly my point. how can you sit there and tell us that we shouldnt complain about it, when thats all we can try to do to save our own hunting situation. and again, you arent in this position, so you wouldnt understand all the anger that comes from this. we have to sit back and hope that our landowner doesnt do anything that might effect our hunting tradition, when like you said it would nearly double their income.
so what are we supposed to do? let it go and try and make alot of money so you can play the game? well thats not the way it should be, and everyone knows this. hunting shouldnt have to be about who makes enough money to buy the other guy out. this isnt the way hunting should be, but like you said, thats how it is. so if you can play the money game, good for you, but i can't, and this is why it frustrates me.
so what are we supposed to do? let it go and try and make alot of money so you can play the game? well thats not the way it should be, and everyone knows this. hunting shouldnt have to be about who makes enough money to buy the other guy out. this isnt the way hunting should be, but like you said, thats how it is. so if you can play the money game, good for you, but i can't, and this is why it frustrates me.
03-03-2005, 05:58 PM
#27
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bureau County Illinois
Posts: 605
RE: IDNR changing state of deer hunting.
The slams I have seen directed towards Pike County have not been the resident hunters who live in the area. It has been directed at the chamber of commerce and the landowners/outiffters who are B an Moaning about not being about to get unlimited permits for out of state people so they can make another buck. This is the problem most in staters have with Pike. Not the resident hunters complaining about loosing hunting access but the outfitters and landowners moaning about caps on permit sales.
My biggest problem with this is not the landowners going for money. Hey, farmers aren't getting a lot so when their land is valuable a lot will sell out. Others see their land as their retirement fund and want ot see it increase in value. If hunters increase it than great as far as they are concerened. No, my biggest problem is that MONEY is driving management decisions instead of science. If this additional money comming in ment more money for the DNR and maybe more public land purchases I think you might see more support. The problem is for every dollar that goes into the DNR from this proposal another dollar will be taken back from the DNR out of the general budget. It is short sighted money grab economics and it is not a good thing for any one envolved except maybe the politicians up North who are coming up for election and are too scared to cut programs or raise fees that affect everyone. This is happening everywhere. They jacked up the prices on the tollroads for none IPASS peoplet hinking this usage fee would generate more revenue. Guess what? People are by passing the toll roads and now surface roads have more congestion. I have ZERO confidence in Springfields elected officials doing anything logical right now because they can't get their head out ..... I'll stop now.
My biggest problem with this is not the landowners going for money. Hey, farmers aren't getting a lot so when their land is valuable a lot will sell out. Others see their land as their retirement fund and want ot see it increase in value. If hunters increase it than great as far as they are concerened. No, my biggest problem is that MONEY is driving management decisions instead of science. If this additional money comming in ment more money for the DNR and maybe more public land purchases I think you might see more support. The problem is for every dollar that goes into the DNR from this proposal another dollar will be taken back from the DNR out of the general budget. It is short sighted money grab economics and it is not a good thing for any one envolved except maybe the politicians up North who are coming up for election and are too scared to cut programs or raise fees that affect everyone. This is happening everywhere. They jacked up the prices on the tollroads for none IPASS peoplet hinking this usage fee would generate more revenue. Guess what? People are by passing the toll roads and now surface roads have more congestion. I have ZERO confidence in Springfields elected officials doing anything logical right now because they can't get their head out ..... I'll stop now.
03-03-2005, 09:57 PM
#29
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bunker Hill IL USA
Posts: 188
RE: IDNR changing state of deer hunting.
You can't blame someone for wanting the chance at a big buck, but they have to realize that this resourse is limited and must be managed. This idea of let me have what you have doesn't hold any weight. We all know if they were living in a hot spot and started losing their hunting area to out of state hunters, they would be getting upset about it too. I'm sorry but life isn't fair, some states have big bucks and some don't, that is just the way it is.
People with money are trying to shift the balance in their favor, so they can look at residents and say the same thing (a little bit different tho). I'm sorry but life isn't fair, some people have money and some don't, and we get to make the rules, that is just the way it is.
This is just like 2 kids on a playground, 1 has a pack of bubblegum and the other one doesn't. The kid without runs to the teacher and forces the 1 with the gum to share until he runs out.
There has to be limits. I am not old enough to remember the lack of deer 30 years ago but somebody realized the need for limits, and that is why things are good know.
This issue will never be settled, because the lucky few are always going to get crapped on by the pushy wealthy few.
I also think that it should be a lottery with an equal chance for all NR's, and the outfitters should not get any garranties.
If they remove the cap on NR's tags ,I wouldn't doubt that they start limiting us to 1 buck, so that they can start selling chances at one to whoever can afford it.
Just my opinion, everyone is entitled to one, right or wrong.
People with money are trying to shift the balance in their favor, so they can look at residents and say the same thing (a little bit different tho). I'm sorry but life isn't fair, some people have money and some don't, and we get to make the rules, that is just the way it is.
This is just like 2 kids on a playground, 1 has a pack of bubblegum and the other one doesn't. The kid without runs to the teacher and forces the 1 with the gum to share until he runs out.
There has to be limits. I am not old enough to remember the lack of deer 30 years ago but somebody realized the need for limits, and that is why things are good know.
This issue will never be settled, because the lucky few are always going to get crapped on by the pushy wealthy few.
I also think that it should be a lottery with an equal chance for all NR's, and the outfitters should not get any garranties.
If they remove the cap on NR's tags ,I wouldn't doubt that they start limiting us to 1 buck, so that they can start selling chances at one to whoever can afford it.
Just my opinion, everyone is entitled to one, right or wrong.
03-03-2005, 11:27 PM
#30
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: IA/MO
Posts: 742
RE: IDNR changing state of deer hunting.
I agree with alot of what is being said here. The fact is that BIG MONEY is talking. I am an out of stater from MO who loves the chance to hunt whitetails in Illinois every year for a week. It is a fantastic state to hunt. I for one have never had to wait in a line at a check station to check a deer(archery). I know there are alot of mixed feelings about out of staters and the lose of your hunting ground to them. I have never hunted with a outfitter and only hunt public ground but I think setting aside 7500 tags for outfitters is not helping the local guy out with his problem. That is just filling the outfitters pocket allowing him to acquire and buy up more of your hunting ground that you may have hunted since a child. Raising the tag price is also just outrageous. To me the IDNR needs a outfitters license because that is what they are becoming. Its all about money and not the hunter or the hunting and what it stands for and represents. I sure hope the price doesn't go up because thats alot of money to tie up on a chance. The lottery is fine with me I'll take my chances but not at $500 a pop and I think those that hunt with the outfitters should not be given special treatment. This stuff is getting crazy. I also take offensive to the comment about earning your buck. I set aside one week a year to come and hunt public ground in IL. Since doing so I have taken several nice bucks the most recent two scoring 147 and 171. I don't think that makes me lucky at being at the right place+right time and if that is the case it is because I put MYSELF at the right place right time on purpose I would say.