Ill. Non residence deer Licences
02-19-2005, 07:25 PM
#21
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bureau County Illinois
Posts: 605
RE: Ill. Non residence deer Licences
If you open your eyes and look around at all aspects of state Government they are looking for ways to increase revenue in the short term. This includes selling state owned land, properties and other things, cutting departments down past a level best described as bare bones and raising fees for a number of things from sin taxes, to tolls to hunting permits.. most of these hikes are directed towards groups that either don't have a huge political influence in the state (Out of state hunters, drivers et all) or that people have little sympathy for (The proposed larger tax on tobacco products). Those in charge are too afraid to raise taxes to pay for all of the programs that they are to afraid to cut into because of the fear of getting a black eye on NBC 5's news at 6 in Chicago. the problem is where is the state going to get the revnue 3 years from now? Or, that doesn't matter as the next election cycle will be past already.
It has been this way for YEARS but with an increasing erosion in manufacturing tax revenues and other bread and butter money producers for the state there just is NO money to pay for the escalating costs. It is a shame. And than you get your special projects. There is a brand new Prison or 3 in this State just sitting there empty because no one will fund the Department of corrections to open the Prisons. Guess what? Every year more money is pased to build NEW prisons that won't be openend.
I am not sure how much money is being funneled away from DNR from sales of permits and the like. More likely funds that used to be given to the DNR out of the General fund are now being directed in other directions. This will continue untill (If this hasn't happened already) the DNR has no money from the general fund and than the money will be directed towards Chicago and Springfield area parks to manage them instead of purchasing land so the average person can have a place to hunt. With this influx of NR's coming in the near future where are we going to end up? Its not a pretty picture.
I hunt private land and we have been aproached about selling rights out to an outfitter. It isn't going to happen anytime soon as I don't think the outfitters have my or the deer herds best interest at heart. I don't plan on it changing anytime sonn. I do worry about stories of some "outfitters" dropping people off at land they do not have permision to hunt as we do have tresspassing issues in this area and I fear that it will only get worse with more hunters in the woodlots around here. Only time will tell.
I have sympathy for the NR's not being able to afford to hunt in Illinois but if they go unlimted in permits and don't raise prices than the deer population will crash and this will result in decreased demand for out of state permits which will in turn drive the prices back down to earth. For those that choose to not pay the money you should be aware that there will be 4-5 guys lined up behind you to pay that bill. There is a reason these permits have sold out in 30 minutes or whatever it is. Sometimes I wish they would switch over to a lottery system just to #@%#$ with the outfitters.
Anthony
PS Where are you located Don? I grew up in Kane County..
It has been this way for YEARS but with an increasing erosion in manufacturing tax revenues and other bread and butter money producers for the state there just is NO money to pay for the escalating costs. It is a shame. And than you get your special projects. There is a brand new Prison or 3 in this State just sitting there empty because no one will fund the Department of corrections to open the Prisons. Guess what? Every year more money is pased to build NEW prisons that won't be openend.
I am not sure how much money is being funneled away from DNR from sales of permits and the like. More likely funds that used to be given to the DNR out of the General fund are now being directed in other directions. This will continue untill (If this hasn't happened already) the DNR has no money from the general fund and than the money will be directed towards Chicago and Springfield area parks to manage them instead of purchasing land so the average person can have a place to hunt. With this influx of NR's coming in the near future where are we going to end up? Its not a pretty picture.
I hunt private land and we have been aproached about selling rights out to an outfitter. It isn't going to happen anytime soon as I don't think the outfitters have my or the deer herds best interest at heart. I don't plan on it changing anytime sonn. I do worry about stories of some "outfitters" dropping people off at land they do not have permision to hunt as we do have tresspassing issues in this area and I fear that it will only get worse with more hunters in the woodlots around here. Only time will tell.
I have sympathy for the NR's not being able to afford to hunt in Illinois but if they go unlimted in permits and don't raise prices than the deer population will crash and this will result in decreased demand for out of state permits which will in turn drive the prices back down to earth. For those that choose to not pay the money you should be aware that there will be 4-5 guys lined up behind you to pay that bill. There is a reason these permits have sold out in 30 minutes or whatever it is. Sometimes I wish they would switch over to a lottery system just to #@%#$ with the outfitters.
Anthony
PS Where are you located Don? I grew up in Kane County..
02-20-2005, 08:14 AM
#23
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Utah
Posts: 4,815
RE: Ill. Non residence deer Licences
Hey, I grew up in Kane County.... still here too.
I think the NR cap and Raised fees are mostly bad.
We complain about NR leasing up the land or using outfitters and hunting just for antlers/not killing enough does.. etc... etc... But by making the fees so high to hunt here... who is it that can afford to hunt in Illinois? People who can also afford to pay an outfitter or lease land and are coming here to get a set of antlers.. not a doe.
The only NRs we are excluding are the regular people who wouldn't normally lease land or use an outfitter. (not that I have anything against outfitters or leasing... but it seems just about everybody else does)
IF the extra money raised was earmarked to purchase more public land in IL (even if it's far away from me) then I would support the Cap and Hike. Otherwise, I think we are just making our problems worse.
I think the NR cap and Raised fees are mostly bad.
We complain about NR leasing up the land or using outfitters and hunting just for antlers/not killing enough does.. etc... etc... But by making the fees so high to hunt here... who is it that can afford to hunt in Illinois? People who can also afford to pay an outfitter or lease land and are coming here to get a set of antlers.. not a doe.
The only NRs we are excluding are the regular people who wouldn't normally lease land or use an outfitter. (not that I have anything against outfitters or leasing... but it seems just about everybody else does)
IF the extra money raised was earmarked to purchase more public land in IL (even if it's far away from me) then I would support the Cap and Hike. Otherwise, I think we are just making our problems worse.
02-20-2005, 09:03 AM
#24
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bureau County Illinois
Posts: 605
RE: Ill. Non residence deer Licences
And that is one of my biggest problems with the whole outfitting thing is that, the ones I KNOW of, very little does are killed so you end up with really strange herd compositions. Now, there are many outfitters that are out there that manage their herds very carefully, I am sure but there are a lot of fly by nighters that don't. They don't stay in business long and seem to rent one farm out after another and move on after they wreck the herd. We have farmers who do things like that to with tillable land and it is not something that makes me happy. Its bad business but I suppose when you look at the longer term outfitters down South and around the state most probably have managed to keep their herds in some sort of balance by making sure only bucks of certain size are harvested and limting the amount killed in a year per section. I would hope they do this.
Now I don't really care about not having antlers to hang on the wall because that isn't really what hunting is about to me but I realize that a big portion of the funds that we get from NR's is because of the large Antlers not our large doe population. I personally love seeing the deer around here year round, does, fawns and the occasional buck and we have some advantage in that our woodlots in this part of the county are rather small and thus haven't attracted the attention of too many leasing people. I just worry that with the massive influx of NR's that will come, regardless of the price, will kill the goose that laid the golden egg for these outfitters that are sueing for it. I just see it as short sighted.
It is not the leasing in general that I have a problem with. If you don'l live in the country or you don't have family or friends that do you are going to be scrambling for land to hunt. Leasing or clubs or outfitters can help you in this situation. And more and more farmers are saying no to hunting because of liability and a lot of slob hunters damaging property. Unfortunatly one hunter does something and it labels all hunters as the same. It is a shame. We no longer have a choice to let people hunt our ground because my Father in Law, who owns this land, says nope, to much risk.
I always know that worse case Scenerio for land access I can hunt my folks house in Wayne. Wish the place still looked like it did when I was a kid and the houses were cheap but those times are gone. That being said they see Dozens of deer in there yard almost everyday. It would probably be like hunting at a zoo unfortunatly.
The area between Tiskwila and Princeton is nice. Actually all around, North and South of Princeton and a little to the west there is some real good woodlands for hunting. I think a lot is run by an outfitter now but that is just stuff I hear from some of the more long time locals. I'm sure there are quite a few farm that are still controlled by the landowners.
Now I don't really care about not having antlers to hang on the wall because that isn't really what hunting is about to me but I realize that a big portion of the funds that we get from NR's is because of the large Antlers not our large doe population. I personally love seeing the deer around here year round, does, fawns and the occasional buck and we have some advantage in that our woodlots in this part of the county are rather small and thus haven't attracted the attention of too many leasing people. I just worry that with the massive influx of NR's that will come, regardless of the price, will kill the goose that laid the golden egg for these outfitters that are sueing for it. I just see it as short sighted.
It is not the leasing in general that I have a problem with. If you don'l live in the country or you don't have family or friends that do you are going to be scrambling for land to hunt. Leasing or clubs or outfitters can help you in this situation. And more and more farmers are saying no to hunting because of liability and a lot of slob hunters damaging property. Unfortunatly one hunter does something and it labels all hunters as the same. It is a shame. We no longer have a choice to let people hunt our ground because my Father in Law, who owns this land, says nope, to much risk.
I always know that worse case Scenerio for land access I can hunt my folks house in Wayne. Wish the place still looked like it did when I was a kid and the houses were cheap but those times are gone. That being said they see Dozens of deer in there yard almost everyday. It would probably be like hunting at a zoo unfortunatly.
The area between Tiskwila and Princeton is nice. Actually all around, North and South of Princeton and a little to the west there is some real good woodlands for hunting. I think a lot is run by an outfitter now but that is just stuff I hear from some of the more long time locals. I'm sure there are quite a few farm that are still controlled by the landowners.
