MarkIIVT

Well you choose the bow, don't make the rest of us pay for your need for "Challange". I call it barbaric with the large wounding rate. Already been over the camp ripley study, ok see above mentioned thread. If you need more time, don't take it out of mine.

According to the tables produced, the very end of the Rut in NW Kansas ends in the third week of november and is over by the 1st of December in SW Kansas. There are some second heaters, and a few here ant there, but NO, there is NO Rut at the time of Rifle season. KShunter disagrees with you on that. Remember the cry "Keep the Rifle Hunters out of the RUT".

You guys!!

kshunter

Just some things to point out. You apply that herd reduction is the main deer management too here in Kansas. Name one county where the deer are malnutritioned or are having any problems at all directly related to over-population?

I like the idea about having to take a doe first, if the goal in the county was to lower the population. But I also would have shot down the idea. Majority of the rifle hunters I know, wait until the 12th -13th day to shoot any deer, when they've passed up many small bucks and does, waiting for the big one. Do you really think that lengthening the season will help any? Maybe very minimal if any and "majority" of hunters would have already knew that. It'd just give them an extra week of chasing that big one before they settle for a doe or small buck. A great tool for lessening the quality of deer.

If it already dispelled then why are you still using it??? Sorry but you sound like the kid in Highschool who's buddy got a really nice car, so he keyed it to make himself feel better. Same ideology.

Just comes to show you obviously don't talk to different hunters every day, on a regular basis. Here in about a year, once this actually comes to the public more than it has now, you'll be hearing a lot more.

I'll give him some time, [8D]

MarkIIVT

The deer herd is managed for "public tolerance" by Statute. You and I are hunters and want to see big bucks and a healthy herd, Yes? But That is not the legal reason to manage the deer herd. You are pointing out an ideas I agree with, but 130,000 hunters are NOT a majority in the state of Kansa, the remaining 2.5 million are and the majority rules. It has nothing to do with malnutrition of the herd. (Hardly able to happen in Kansas anyway because it is one large food plot ie agriculture).

As for the rest, you didn't read the thread I put TTT for you to read. It was not that simple was my point, and your statement shows rigidity of thinking and the substance an ignorance of management principals and legal requirements and implications. The thread in

deerhunting forum, thread "Kansas Deer Hunters..." shows very clearly my collection of facts, figures, public policy statements and the whol boat of issues you choose to rehash. That argument was a year ago, and because of some very poor actions of KBA members who are employees of the state KDWP lite into a senator, you are sitting in the funk you are now in.

Here is a little bit of information; it is going to get far worse for bowhunters in the future in Kansas. The legislative body is not getting the information and the investigation of KBA member KDWP employees releasing information on an ongonig investigation (misconduct by statute) done by KDWP. There is simply no support for bowhunters in the state anymore, legislatively. What do you expect when you as a hunting community light into senators for crying out load. However, to simply blame it on outfitting is simplistic, and shows that you are not aware of the dirty tricks that were done to a few senators, in the name of KBA. Bowhunters hung themselves on this issue, first by aleinating the firearms hunters, then by lighting into legislative representatives. Why would either of those groups (most hunters BTW) support bowhunting after all the fine things dtated about them, and restrictions, and circular logic (which you display).

For example, look at Howlers post in that thread. Totally different than what he is saying now. He is the one who changed his tune. That's why I put it TTT. You guys don't have a consistent argument nor any other issue than "bowhunters only".

This is called political "blowback". And bowhunters in Kansas made this bed, so quit complaining about it with hypothetical issues. Deal with data. Deal with reality. As a hunting group, you will now experience the same deafening sound of being ignored and your arguments not being heard. I did not do this, but I did predict the current state of affairs over a year ago. Check the thread, read it.

Til then your arguments ring very hollow. Just compare your statements to that made a year ago by bowhunters, my statements are consistent, accurately reflect the ongoing conditions and are backed up by data and legal precedent. Always have been....always will.

Howler

What ever! Seems like most other states have longer bow seasons than rifle season. Can they all be wrong? Is it that all the bow hunters are being "favored" every where these days. Do ya suppose it's about the almighty dollar in every other state too!! Why would Ks. be any different!!
Mark, after you get KS. straigthened out, maybe you could start working on CO. next, after all, the bow hunters out here have several weeks where as rifle hunters get a maximum of 10 days in any one season! And the poor muzzle loaders have to hunt during archery season[]

MarkIIVT

Howler, just read your posts a year ago. Totaly opposite of what U are saying now.

And No, other states do not have seasons like Kansas. And for the last time, I M NOT ASKING FOR 2 MONTHS AFIELD for rifles, a week or 2 extension when the population increases, and back it off when population decreases. The point was to increase availability to harvest AND NOT INCREASE TAG ALLOTMENTS. How many times I hafta say that. Howler, you agreed a year ago, what changed???? Most of the surrounding states, allow some form of hunting in the Rut for firearms, be it handgun or ML, or rifle. NO, in other states (except for Iowa) archers are limited. In colorado you can ML hunt during Archery season. Kansas is the only state in the US that has a 2.5 month season, anydeer tag, OTC, statewide, with no other hunting method allowed for big game during that time. If that is equal access I have got some great land to sell you. Our ML in Kansas have to hunt in Sept, for crying out loud. I have that in Public Information requests from TX, OK, NE, MO, and CO. My research comparea all four states in season, success, data collection, tag sales, management principals, etc.

All was presented to the KDWP, AG office, and House and Senate legislatore about 35 I believe. They all agreed, KDWP does a terrible job in deer management, and providing equal hunter access.

MarkIIVT

And everyone on this board can see the consistancy, and detail in data of my statement. And a committment to Firearms rights and hunting rights.

MarkIIVT

BTW, where were you 2 experts when our Governor appointed a lawyer, a wako environmentalist, and a anti-gun nut to the Game commission?? I wrote 100's of emails, made countless phone calls, and dug into my personal pocketbook giving many benjimins to 2nd Amend. Society, and to lobbyists to upstand for my gun rights and hunting rights. I got little help from KBA, most of them did not want to "aleinate" the new commissioners. KBA sat on their hands, because the anti-gun guy told them what they wanted to hear, he would support exactly what You wanted....and he hasn't carried through yet. His name...Kelley Johnston, Handgun Control, Inc.

Thanks for the lack of support, that was gauged too, by the sitting legislature as well when assessing the "commitment" of the Bowhunters to hunting issues.

See, there is a lot that you are NOT aware of. I did not sit on my butt and complain, I found out, I learned, and I took action and literaly put my money where my mouth is. It is easy to sit here and let everybody know what you think, It is another entirely to take action, whether it means finding data agencies don't want to let out, or backing with effort or money a cause that you believe in.

kshunter

MarkIIVT

I sent several emails myself and discussed this on 2-3 different boards to gain support, and inform people of what is happening when these 3 were appointed. If your so good at putting your money where your mouth is then get to some other forum where we don't have to listen your ignorant trash. You just love trying to separate the hunters even when you know nothing about what was being said above.

And again for your political "blowback" theory, sure it would have gotten you an A in class, but too bad it's just a hypothetical situation that you and your computer think is what happened. I gave you several reason not only why your proposed plan wouldn't work and why your political "blowback" theory is invalid, and yet all the info you can give me is why you beleive it is true. It just doesn't add up Mark. I can gaurentee that if you took a poll of all Kansas deer-hunters, on whether they supported or were against the unitization of bow permits, there would be over-welming support against any of it. You need to come out of your shell buddy. I doubt you hunt much or actually talk much to the public to real hunters. It's obvious you have a biased opinion against bowhunters and anyone that read this post could clearly see that. Maybe it was the buck you shot with the arrow in the neck... who knows.

You do have a lot of good ideas on certain things, and it seems you are here to help just like the rest of us, and you claim to be on the "hunters" side, just going about it in the wrong biased way. I do not claim to know everything and doubt I have done near as much data research on this subject as you. But data information is only as important as amount you know about the people it affects, which is the biggest part of your theory and your knowledge that is missing.

Enough said on this subject for me, you don't and most likely will never get it, enough time wasted here.

MarkIIVT

No you didn't give any defensible reasons, give any data or findings...only ypur opinion. And I gather you propose to speak on behalf of all the hunters in Kansas??? And for about 1000,000 + Firearms hunters??? Quite a bold statement, and you asked all of them of course...oh and the total constituency of the State of Kansas???? WHAT A GUY YOU ARE! And I am not anti-bow hunting, I am PRO Firearms, period and will work at length to get more time afield for myself and other hunters. THAT is not Anti-bowhunting. So don't get me caught up in your anti-rifle hunting atttitude. That's exactly what it is, buddy. And notice I did not denigrate your hunting ability or you personally aas you did with me.

Dude, You are the one living in a dream world. BTW, where do you get he idea of what kind of hunter I am?? I guess you think all those that hunt with a Rifle are not real hunters too??? that is what happens when you don't experience things far away from home, you see the world from a very stunted perspective.

Check the voting record, check the discussion in the legislature, and then tell me again how your finely tuned intuition and your group of friends are in connection with the pulse of the universe. There was political blowback, and it did not go away because you don't agree with that assessment. You are pathetic. AND I made no derrogatory statements on your hunting, just your intellect and understanding of the facts. YOU are the close minded one.

MarkIIVT

BTW, Still waiting on the investigation of 2 CO's that released info, in an ongoing investigation, to discredit a Senator or 2 when the unitizing vote and t-tag vote came up. Heard that the Law Enforcement Super got replaced, did you hear about that??

Your ear is so close to the ground, you must have.

As all of our Government Agencies, it is bloated, ineffective, inefficient, and corrupt. No wonder we don't know how many deer there are in Kansas