wack

Wisconsin Elk Hunting. Has A nice ring to it. A dream many of us share. In 1995 they released 25 animals,that herd is now estemated to be 135 as of 07/07. I'd like to have my fellow hunters take a look at what's been done what's being planned and discuss ideas on the subject and what we can do to help. I found this DNR page to be very informative and interesting, check it out.http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/..._CL_Update.htm
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/elk/questions.htm

There is also more good information linked to that page including an article about a "PROPOSED BLACK RIVER FALLS ELK HERD." basically saying the plan was OK'd but then put on hold due to CWD. http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/elk/brfalls.htm
Now I think reintroducing Elk is a wonderfull idea and think this project has gotten a lot of bang for it's buck with some real good data and results. My hats off to the folks who made it happen but what now?
All the studies were done for BRF,( Black River Falls, WI.) Impact studies, habitate studies, everything was planned and ready to go in 2002. THEN, CWD raised it's ugly head in southern WI. and the DNR just dropped the Elk plan for BRF.

I can't talk about the Elk with out also talking about the wolves. We all know that they've been delisted and we're in a new time where the states will be taking over the responsability of wolf population control. Just in time for WI. , a little too late for some of the western states.
So we have wolves in the north, CWD in the south. It doesn't look real bright for our deer populations future or the Elk. In all of history there's never been a time like this in Wisconsin and I think it's time for some changes.

First, Why did the DNR stop the BRF Elk project? They're affraid CWD will spread up north and wipe out the Elk.

What are they doing about stopping the CWD? Trying to wipe out the deer herd in the CWD zone.
is it working? No, slowing the spreading down at best.
How do we get rid of CWD? We let the wolves do it for us. No creature, including man, can do the job better.
Now if you are familur with the BRF's area, you might know that it's been recently ran over by wolves. Hunters are crying and the deer population has taken a drastic hit in numbers. I believe this is great news! Here's why. The clam Lake herd has been living and growing right a long with the wolves in that area. Bears have actually done more predation than wolves on the Clam Lake herd. Cars have taken more elk than wolves. The wolves in that area are eating the deer instead. If there are no deer, there is no CWD. If the wolves can make a buffer zone between the Elk and CWD our Elk herd just might have a chance and now is the time to get BRF Elk reintroduction plan back on track.

Problem is how far south do they let the wolves get? Every time a wolf or bear gets anywhere near the CWD zone, the DNR catch 'em and send them back north. Time or change. The southern Wisconsin petting zoo mentallity has to change. Everyone wants a bunch of deer to feed in there back yards but history and our own deer population numbers show that deer with out predators doesn't work. Up north, they have wolves wether they like it or not. If you take the wolf population map and impose it over the CWD zone maps, deer population maps and add the Elk population and proposal map, ad bear populations also and then tell me what you think? I think, as is, we're in trouble. Deer in the south are in trouble, deer in the north are in trouble and the DNR trying to keep CWD down south and wolves and bears up north makes no sense to me.
Things have been so out of balance in Wisconsin for well over 100 years now. Deer population have been through the roof and we can expect a big down cycle. This land had wolves, bears, cougars, carabou, Elk, buffalo, moose and deer to name a few. In the past 20 years we've made some progress in returning bears, wolves, eagles, turkeys, Pheasants (wich aren't even native to Wisconsin), cranes... Shows how fast things can improve with a little effort. If Wisconsin hunters invested half of what we spend to hunt Elk in other states and Canada, we'd have a huntable population of Elk in 10 years. If we do nothing more than put 25 Elk in BRF, we could have a huntable population in 25 years. While western states are trying to recover from overpopulation of wolves, we have a chance to bring both up together and the ability to control the wolf population. Something the western states weren't allowed because od the endangered species act.
There are a lot of Elk reintroduction plans that have worked well in other states. It's working here despite the fact that we've dropped the ball. Our herd is growing at a rate of about 15% per year. That's amazing considering that we started with 25 elk in 1995 and the winters of 95-97 were the 2 worst winters on record. I think it's time we start doing something. The Clam Lake herd is using 40 square miles. They have 700 square miles set asside for them in the Clam Lake area alone. Even if we do nothing but move 25 Elk to BRF from Clam Lake, it would be better than having all the Elk sitting in one area waiting for CWD to get there. Things are going to change wether we like it or not and with a little effort we could get our elk herd a boost while we're waiting for the deer population to rebound. Our hunting dollars have already paid for all the studies and plans, why drop the ball now?

lungbuster12point06

Your theory is flawed in that Elk are also carriers of CWD............if you think that by having the wolves kill all the deer in that area it will also wipe out any chances of CWD your mistaken..........not only does CWD infect Elk,Deer and other cervids, it is nearly impossible to rid it from the environment (it can stay in the soil indefinately!) I would be willing to bet that the DNR is out of funding for this project and it will likely never happen, because they do not have the funds and because they do not want to risk bringing in CWD by transplanting infected Elk. It is not possible to test live animals 100% to rule out if they are infected..........don't get me wrong,I would love to one day be able to hunt Elk in our state, but I really don't think it will happen ........ at least not in my lifetime..........and also I don't think it should come at the cost of wiping out the deer herd in a particular area (that is not sound management).

Also I don't know where you come up with your petting zoo mentality in the southern part of the state comment?
We are not allowed to bait or feed........PERIOD (not that I care I never did when it was legal)! It is only allowed outside the zone and is mainly practiced in the north.............come down and look at some of the deer numbers in certain areas,you will see that the DNR's eradication efforts have decimated certain herds,while others continue to grow because people are rebelling against senseless slaughter.........I shoot just as many deer as I can use or can be donated to the food pantry, but now the food pantry is history because the idiots at the DNR wasted all thier funding trying to kill a disease that has no end! So will I shoot more deer than my freezer will hold this year? No...Do I think it would make a difference in stopping CWD if I did? No......Do i think if wolves were introduced into our southern herds it would stop the spread of CWD? NO!.....what happens when your wolves move on to Ill. or back to northern or central Wi.? They may leave dung piles that contain CWD prions along the way, any cervid living in those areas could become infected from eating the soil those prions leech into, thus continuing the spread of a disease I have no doubt is already in northern deerherds just waiting to be "discovered".

I suggest you do some real research on CWD before you propose ideas and ways to keep it from heading towards your Elk.

By the way..................the only good wolf, is a dead wolf!

wack

Lungbuster, You make the same arguement that I've heard time after time. My plan is flawed only because our world is flawed. To give up because of CWD is like saying I'm not going to have kids because I'm affraid they'l die of aids.
Yes precautions would have to be made. Bringing in a deseased animal would be a big risk. This was also a big part of the studies and why I would be more inclined just to move 25 or so elk from the Clam Lake herd to Black River Falls. The herd could use some fresh genetics but at what risk? Moving 25 elk to BRF would at least give our exsisting elk a better chance to survive if CWD get's up that far. If just 1 elk up at Clam Lake is infected, kiss the whole project good by.

"Also I don't know where you come up with your petting zoo mentality in the southern part of the state comment? "

What I mean by petting zoo mentallity is based on my experience living west of Madison. I lived near Lone Rock. Many of the small farms are gone and houses and urban sprawl is spreading. When ever a bear or wolf shows up, the DNR are right on it and shipping the animals back. I personally couldn't give a damn if a bear tears down you're laundry or bird feeders, put it back up a little higher. They'll put up with overpopulated deer herd because they're pretty. But no, if it's a dangerous animal it can't be there because predators don't do well in petting zoo's. They might bite! My deffinition of petting zoo mentallity is people wanting the cute friendly animals but don't want any predators around. News flash, you cant have the cute friendly critters without having predators. Without predators, everything dies. Go to England and see what I mean, they don't need guns, they got no critters to hunt. Mother nature just turns to desease instead of predation. History backs me up on this subject.
I also have seen 0 evidence that CWD can be spread through wolf dung. That's a new one, and I like to see proof of this. Even if the prions do survive in wolf dung, how many deer hang around eating wolf dung? Just another excuse based on flawed theories.
We've proven that the DNR's way of dealing with CWD isn't working. The plan to work means everyone has to cooperrate and that isn't happening. I can't tresspass onto lawyer Browns 10 acres, but let's see Lawyer Brown stop a wolf pack.
" I suggest you do some real research on CWD before you propose ideas and ways to keep it from heading towards your Elk."

This statment should be combined with the idea that the DNR has run out of funding. DNR funding comes from huntin money. Hunting money is declining because of CWD. It's a downward spiral, less deer less hunters less money. Bear hunting has picked up a little of the slack, but as the deer population falls, so will the bear population. The money elk hunting could bring to our state would be a boost in the right dirrection. Unfortunatly, we started the elk a littlle to late. If we would have started with 100 elk in 95 we'd be hunting elk right now and that money would be a great help.
I'd also like to say they are not MY elk. They are Wisconsin's elk. Your hunting money helped to put them in Clam Lake. Your money is paying for all the studies, radio collars and field research. The money has already been spent and it's a waist just sitting there doing nothing when we are so close!

"also I don't think it should come at the cost of wiping out the deer herd in a particular area (that is not sound management)."

Why would you blame the elk for wiping out the deer herd? Nature runs in cycles. Deer population go up, predator populations go up, deer populations go down, the predators poplation follows. That's how it's supposed to work. We've had no predators for nearly 100 years or more, deer populations have been on the up part of the cycle for a hundred years because of man wiping out the predators and failing to manage the deer numbers. A 7 YEAR CYCLE HAS BEEN DELAYED FOR A CENTURY, do you really think we can just keep the up cycle going for another hundred years? I don't think so. History has shown that the only alternative to a down side of the cycle is extinction. If CWD doesn't bring the down cycle then it will be another desease. Look in the forums and see why the deer are dieing in Ill, MO. and other states. Not CWD, it's another virus and something called blue tongue. The deer herd is in truble. If we don't plan now, we won't have any big game in Wisconsin to hunt within our lifetime.
Wiping out the deer herd isn't something I want. I don't think we're going to have a choice in the matter. When any population gets too high, mother nature kicks in and balances things back out. To balance 100 years of overpopulation? Natures way is to wipe out most of the herd, and have a few survivors that develope a resistance to the desease to start the cycle over again. Add the DNR and who knows what will happen.
OUR Wisconsin Elk are a reality. We have 135 elk in Clam Lake. To stop now means to throw away all the study and research that has been done and continuing on.. The cost to move 25 elk from Clam Lake to BRF is peanuts. We spend more money on pheasants in Wisconsin a bird that's not supposed to be here. Elk ARE supposed to be here and in return could bring in 100 times the money pheasants bring Wisconsin. We spend billions of dollars on stupid things and yet can't spare a dime to help protect our elk investment? We sent millions of dollars to Africa to save the elephants and rino's but can't spare a buck for Wisconsin Elk? How about the man on the moon? That was a good investment. The elk have survived since 1995 with out much help, grown from 25 to 135 with an average of 15% growth every year. The impact on the environment has been studied and what they've found is that the land needs the elk. Bears feed on the young elk. More bears, more hunting. The elk are eating the native plants and making them stronger, helping to keep out invasive species that threaten the habitat. Ever angle of study shows the Clam Lake experiment has been more successful than anyone could have imagined!
So why are'nt we doing anything? CWD is the big problem. So what is the best and what is the worst things that could happen if we moved 25 elk to BRF from clam lake? CWD reaches both herds and kills them all. With the radio collars and field researchers that we are paying for anyways, they'll scoop up the remains and do the tests and determin what happened. If it's CWD the "prions" will be removed from the area with the dead carcasses and destroyed. At least the ones causing dead elk. We then send the researchers home and no more money is needed. We are paying for the research, for the radio collars and recapture studies no matter what until the last elk is gone.
Best thing to happen would be both herds survive and we hunt elk in 25-30 years. Starting a second herd will double the chances of survival. I say 2 herds because all the studies are done for BRF. If there was more studies for different area's I'd split them up into as many small starter herds as possible as far appart as possible. BRF the deer population is down, the wolf population is still exceptable and the time is now. We've got researchers following the wolves with radio collars, while they are there and costing us money, might as well have them track the elk too. Very cost efficient, it's in the budget.
I've said nothing about bring new elk in from other states. Budget wise, we got our 1st 25 free from Michegan. The 2nd 25 was also going to be from Michegan and I think they were going to be free also, not sure. LB made a very good point, we can't risk bringing deseased animals into our state. We could have a huntable herd much quicker importing more animals and new blood would be a good thing but the risk is too high. That's why I say move 25 from Clam lake. Study should be made to determin what numbers to move, maybe half the herd would be better?
Yes my plan may have some flaws in it but at least I'm thinking ahead and trying to find answers and raise awareness and have a plan. If you were to tell me 20 years ago that we would be able to hunt turkeys in every county of this state by 2007, I would have thaught you were smoking crack. I've lived in southwest Wisconsin, central Wisconsin, and now in the Fox Valley. I saw the first turkey to step foot on this soil in over 100 years this summer. I had a large Flock of PELICANS nesting on an island not 2 miles from my house this year. Elk hunting in Wisconsin is not that far fetched. We've got 135 Elk, what are we going to do with them? You can not tell me it's not worth any effort at all. You might think agood wolf is a dead wolf but that isn't going to make them go away. They will be here wether you like it or not. If you take the law into your own hands you aren't any better than a poacher. If we got to have wolves, then we might as well have elk. They force wolves upon us, to truely support wolves in nature you need the rest of the food chain intact also. Elk, buffalo, carabou, moose...... ALL native Wisconsin animals. Studies show that Elk have the best chance for reintroduction, the others are pretty much gonners.
The challenge is to find answers to all the excuses. Bring on the excuses and lets find the answers. Lungbuster is off to a great start, thank you for your reply LB. I challenge you and others to do as much research or more than I have on this subject with an open mind. DARE to dream a little and lets make this dream come true, if not for us, then for our grandchildren. 20 years from now I don't want to be telling my grandchildren how great deer hunting WAS in Wisconsin. I want them to tell me there stories of great deer hunting, elk hunting bear hunting that they have and I can tell them a time when we had no turkeys, cranes bears and elk. Maybe it will be your grandson fighting to reintroduce buffalo or Moose 20 years from now?
One of the worlds most dramatic turn arounds as far ase endangered species and animal management goes is the story of Africa. They cut down the forests to farm. They fought mother nature to scratch out a living by farming. Much like Wi.....
The wildlife would damage crops, kill livestock, the farmers would poach and kill, the wildlife was the enemy and the war was nearly over. (Sounds a lot like America's dairy land.) Then attitudes started to change. Save the animals, to heck with the farms, they realized that with little effort there cash crop wasn't cattle and corn, it was the wildlife. People come from all over the world, pay unbelievable amounts to take pictures and/or hunt only the managment animal that's allowed. That big bull elephant, that dangerous hippo, or rhino, or lion, or water buffalo. All nuesances 30 years ago, nearly ectinct, now worth more than there wait in gold. Cool part is most of the meat stays there to feed the people money stays there to support the people, we can learn a lot by looking at history, and what's worked else where. The cows are happier in California, let 'em go, buffalo is a lot better meat and a lot more fun to hunt. lol The best elk habitate in WI. is in southern Wi. believe it or not. I'd rather get my potato's from Idaho than to have to go to Idaho to elk hunt. I'd rather all the chemicals and fertalizers in those irragation systems through out that range (sandy dry soil) not polute our rivers, streams and lakes, don't tell me they aren't. I've worked in those fields, take a drive along HWY 14 from Madison west. 200 years ago that area was teaming with elk buffalo bears, wolves, now it's potato fields and corn fields owned by big industry. The family farms are getting swallowed up one by one the area is either dirt poor people or big city people with enough money to drive back and forth to Madison. These people see a bear in there garbage and call 911, the bear is shot or taken back north. The poor people, including my family that's still down there, know there's room for the bears, want them and hope someday to hunt them down in SW WI. but the urban sprawl, Madison city slickers want to live in a petting zoo and not allow the bears to stay. Can't imagine what they'll do when they find the wolves down there, but if any area needs wolves right now, it's the cwd zone.

BowHuntingFool

I have alot of elk on my Property in the NLP of Michigan. They sure are nice to look at, but come August/September they are rough on my Pine trees. We lost 26 trees from them tearing them in half and killing them! These trees are 5 - 10 feet tall and they just destroy them! Kinda pisses me off, now when i see them I'll run them off while on the 4 wheeler!

wibowhntr

like lungbuster said, "the only good wolf, is a dead wolf". The DNR never should have reintroduced them back into WI. It wouldn't be bad if them stayed up north in the Big woods but they don't. They hunt whatever is easiest to kill and usually that means farmers livestock. At least now that they are delisted the farmers can shoot them if they are causing problems without the fear of prosecution. I am from around the Black River Falls area and I don't believe it would be good to reintroduce elk in that area. There are too many agricultural areas that would be affected by the reintroduction(cranberry bogs and regular cash crop farmers). I have seen the elk in northern WI and that is cool but WI nolonger has large enough chunks of unbroken forest to maintain a very large population. Whether the DNR wants to believe it or not CWD is always going to be in WI no matter what they try to do to get rid of it. It has been out West for over thirty years and hunters still pay big bucks to go hunting out there. The DNR should get back to worrying about managing the deer herd that is here instead of trying to wipe it out which won't happen. Enough said.....

wack

So when a buck rubs up a pine tree we should run them all off too? I had only 4 pine tree's on my village lot, bucks destroyed all of them. Replanted them and the neighborhood kids ruined them. What good is a forest of trees with out critters? Wipe out the elk to save the tree's. That's a good one. Pine trees are cheap, plant some more and charge admission for photographers, tourists and hunters to see the elk tear up those tree's. Property damage is a valid concern though. In Clam Lake it's been a non issue. In BRF the impact study was in favor of the elk. Forther south you get, the bigger the issue. The more farms, fences and roads. Ideally I'd like to see elk state wide but that's probably not realistic. We are no where near that stage yet but it's an issue that will eventually come up. We deal with deer damage and bear damage, and would have to deal with elk damage in simular fassion. If the elk get too out of hand history has shown that we've wiped them out once easy enough. The challenge is getting them back and learning to live with them. You're going to have to learn to live with wolves, might as well learn how to live with elk too. So an elk messed up your xmas tree, have the elk for xmas dinner and call it even. If you want to save a tree worth saving, eat a beaver. They kill more hardwood than any elk.lol sorry bad joke.

lungbuster12point06

Don't get me wrong I would love to have a hunt able population of elk in Wi. But I would not like to see wolves destroy deer herds to get it done. All predators are part of nature and nature has it's own design for controlling it's game, but I simply don't think wolves can coexist in most of our state without doing serious detriment to livestock and other animals............we have enough predators here in southern WI. we DO NOT need wolves, coyotes are a big problem right now, they have been keeping turkey numbers down in the last few years and also taking large numbers of fawn in the spring...........I am not a big fan of huge deer herds,I am a proponent of QDM and believe that the main goal is to keep the numbers in check and have a balanced,healthy deer herd.....over the past 5 years I have taken a large number of does from our property and NONE have tested positive for CWD.
I am not saying that elk should not be re-introduced into the black river falls area.........what I am saying is that the DNR is NOT going to be the ones to do it, they will come up with all kinds of excuses, but when it boils down to it CWD has taken all of their funding (what a waste). Also I don't believe that one species (deer) should be eradicated to make way for another (elk) which you stated would most likely happen as the wolf packs move in with the elk herds and wipe out the deer.
As for my statement about prions in wolf dung.........it has been proven that it takes temps. over 800 degrees fahrenheit to kill the prions known to cause CWD.......I highly doubt that a wolfs digestive system gets that hot! And not only could wolves spread the prions, any critter that ate an infected deer could possibly spread these prions.........and although no deer is going to directly eat the dung from another animal, it would eat the soil that the animal left it's waste on, and thereby could ingest prions that sit in the soil for indeterminate amounts of time.

It was said before CWD is here to stay..........in my opinion it has always been here.........my whole point from the beginning was that the DNR is too stubborn to admit they made a HUGE mistake when they decided to WASTE our $$$$$$ on trying to wipe out a disease that cannot be killed, therefore any projects that would require the DNR to stop funding it's lost cause of eradicating our whitetails will always take a backseat to the eradication agenda, and since Elk are know to be carriers of CWD there is pretty much no way the DNR will Allow any wild transplants of those animals in the near future.

Do I agree with the logic(or lack there of) NO.............but I believe it is the sad reality............unless we as hunters can stand united and say stop wasting our money on lost causes and start spending it on something beneficial.......the Elk and other worth while programs will fall by the wayside and there will be nothing left to hunt but..............WOLVES!!!!!!! (but sadly even that will probably never happen as there are way too many tree hugging wolf lovers in the legislature)

wack

I believe CWD has been here a lot longer than the DNR are saying, and I agree the DNR's plan the get rid of CWD is a waist of money. I've been thinking about starting a non proffit orginization to to help raise awareness and get the Elk program restarted.
I've written about this subject in a couple of hunting forums and even though I started this string much later than in another forum, surprisingly I'm getting the same slack from hunters in each forum. Basically what I'm finding out is hunters here in Wisconsin don't want anything to change, thet want to deer hunt and that's all. It's been discouraging to say the least.
Most of the arguements are based on lack of information. "We can never have elk in WI., not enough room, habitat ect." There is plenty of room, we don't have to have 2 million elk to have a hunting season. We don't have to wipe out the deer to have elk. They don't eat the same food, they do not compete against each other for food or habitat.
What I've learned by these posts is that CWD is the big hurdle. Without getting past CWD our deer and elk are both in jepordy. I see if I were to start an orginization, the best thing this orginization could do is raise money in hopes of finding a cure for CWD. I love deer hunting. Can't get enough of it. I hope I'm wrong but between CWD, Wolves and the DNR (you can add hunters attitudes to this list also) I believe our deer hunting in WI. is in big trouble and it's going to take a long time to fix. It's also going to take a lot of time to figure out the wolf problem. Just how many wolves should we have and where?
The elk aren't going to hurt the cranberry bogs. The few small farms left around BRF are far and few inbetween because it's not good farm land. The farmers that are hanging on, will find that the value of the land will dramatically increase. Wat brings more $, 80 acres of poor farm land, or 80 acre hunting resort? A huntable herd of elk would mean you are attracting turkey hunters, deer hunters, bear hunters elk hunters, and yes wolf hunters, along with year round tourists. In the BRF area now, deer hunting stinks, farms grow cranberries or trees, . Reminds me of thr African jungle except we're doing a better job of managing our trees than Africa, replanting as we go. The impact studies for BRF show that the elk will not hurt the cranberry industry in the area. Nobody has to stop raising cranberries or trees to have elk. The elk in Clam lake have made the trees and plant life more healthy as a whole. We've got plenty of room up north. We have a great opportunity with in easy reach. What is the absolute worst that could happen? It's not like moving 25-50 elk to BRF would destroy the city of BRF. They're not going to put anyone out of a home or job and has the potential of adding a whole new economy to an area that could use one.
With CWD, the DNR isn't going to trim back the wolf population. The area the wolves are the deer numbers have finally come closer to their deer population goals. The DNR's idea of healthy deer population in a state with CWD is much lower than you and I are used to. I've bow hunted now for 7 years. My first 3 years I averaged a deer kill every 12 times out hunting. The last 3 years I've seen a lot less deer and average is over 1 deer per 20 times out hunting. I've been hunting in between the wolves and CWD where the population is still supposed to be above the goal number. If my neighbors keep wacking doe and young bucks at the rate they've been going, the 80 acres I've been hunting won't be worth the trip to hunt. Of 3 hunters, we've seen 8 deer since opening day. Years past, we've taken 8 deer opening day.
So when you are sitting in your deer stand and wondering what happened to all the deer, the DNR is telling you that this is how many deer we are supposed to have. They are right according to the studies, but we are also supposed to have more than just deer and wolves.
Get used to the low deer numbers. Get used to wolves up north. Mean time take a good look at what is going on at Clam Lake with the deer, bears, elk and wolves. Mother nature is working closer to the way it's supposed to work and is growing at a faster rate than anyone could have imagined. The seed has been planted and it's growing nicly but could do even better with a little help. We are not starting from scratch here, it's already started and growing. With minimal effort we should do what's needed to protect what's been started. If all we do is split up the herd we have now, it's better than doing nothing. Give the 135 elk we have the best fighting chance to survive. If not BRF then maybe somewhere in the north east but I believe because of the wolves, BRF is now prime for elk. If you guys are right, CWD is going to get to the north woods, the wolves will certainly help slow the spread down, and when the deer are gone, then what? Kill the wolves, they go back on the federal endanger species act and we start all over? Spend millions of dollars to keep the wolves from spreading south? We've already spent millions to keep CWD from spreading north. When the deer are gone, what happens to 13,000 WI. bears? I was raised hearing tales of grandpa and great grandpa shooting big bears in BRF. While growing up we camped a lot in BRF and as kids we could run around the woods and have a great time, never feared bears or wolves, they were not there. Camping there last summer with my kids, wolves were within 50 yards of my campsite and one doesn't allow the kids to wander too far....The wolves are there to stay until they have no more food in the woods, then they'll move on. History shows this will take a few years and eventually they will balance out and the cycles won't be so dramatic.
With out CWD the worst that could happen is the elk wouldn't survive and were back to just deer and wolves. The best that could happen is we put northern Wisconsin on the big game hunters maps. As it stands, we're not even on the good whitetail hunting maps.
At one time I thought elk in WI. was A joke much as other people seem to think. I also have said the only good wolf is a dead one, until I started reading about the Clam Lake project. The more I read, the more I learned, the more clear it became that elk hunting in Wisconsin isn't a foolish dream, it's A goal very much in reach, it's already started and paid for, and working. We just need to take a close look and determin what's the next step is. What's happening with wolves, deer and CWD is mud in the water.
BTW someone mentioned coyote. Coyote's don't coexist with wolves. It takes a pack of coyote to kill a deer, and they will. It takes 1 wolf to kill a deer any size, coyote eat more road kill than they than they actually hunt. There are over 500 coyote living within the city limits of Chicago and I've never seen so many coyote along the southern Wisconsin River than I have these past 2 years. What's up with that? Add coyote to the list of deer predators and it looks ever worse for Wisconsin deer. I agree that the turkey population takes a hit from coyote, I've seen it. Have also seen what a pack will do to a deer herd. We had a lot of yearlings and fawns taken by this pack also. They're a pain in the butt but a lot of fun to hunt. Just more proof that things are out of wack in Wisconsin. What next, ferrel hogs? That would probably get better hunter support than elk hunting and would really screw up this state.