HuntElk4Fun

Not me. I can't stand them. I'm a fan of shooting 1 bullet for EVERYTHING. Why spend wasted time sighting in, resighting in, etc. for different grains and loads? I personally shoot a 160 gr bullet in my 7mm RUM and don't even bother with rounds or worry about short distance, penetration, flight etc. from one point type to the other.

DM

NOTHING is better when shooting in brush, because NOTHING shoots through brush with out being deflected!!! BUT, the above myth keeps on being repeated!

These days, there's NOTHING a RN can do that a properly constructed spitzer CAN'T do, BUT there's 'lots" a spitzer CAN do that a RN can't!!

Drilling Man

G2 Shooter

I found a website were a guy did a test simulating several different calibers shooting through brush. ALL of the bullets were deflected to some degree. What was interesting is that the heavier, larger caliber bullets traveling slower were deflected less than the smaller, faster bullets. Most of the pointed bullets were deflected AND hit the target sideways after going through the test sticks. The larger calibers like .45-70 hit the target squarely with the least deflection. I will look for the site at home. I believe I bookmarked it. BUT, bottom line is that there is NO true brush gun. All bullets are deflected when traveling through brush.

So, enough about that overly abused topic. If you are handloading, there isn't anything a spitzer type bullet can't do that a round nosed bullet can like DM said. If you are confined to factory loads, then I would say there is a need to buy round nosed or flat nosed bullets. I have shot two whitetail under 100 yards with my .270WSM were the bullets passed through the animal and the exit hole wasn't any larger than the entrance hole. I believe the bullets were traveling too fast to properly expand. My friends that use a .30-30 or .45-70 have had devastating effects with their short range shots. Usually dropping the animal were it was shot. The round nosed and flat nosed bullets transfer more of their energy faster into the target. This has been discussed in detail by Craig Boddington and I dare anyone in this forum to dispute that man's knowledge

I think another reason that there are so many factory loads with round nosed bullets is cost. Those loads are just cheaper to produce than say a load with the Fail-Safe or Accubond bullet.

DM

I don't dispute what Craig has said, he bases his knowledge on HIS experences!! At least i hope he does.

"I" on the other hand base my knowledge on MY experences! AND, my experence says that "speed kills"!!!!

"If" you have pass throughs without damage at higher velocities, then your useing "too tough" of a constructed bullet for THAT situation!!! These days there's just "no excuse" for a bullet to NOT expand well at low V and also hold up well at high V!!!!

A factory 45/70 load will NOT kill a deer better, faster, easier or any other objective you want to use than, say my 30-06 loaded with a factory 150 grain load!!!! Don't believe me???? Try it yourself! I have!! Better yet, let me use 150 grain NP's!!!!

SPEED KILLS, as long as you use the proper bullets with it!!

Drilling Man

Roskoe

DM - I would have to agree with you completely on this one. As an expanding bullet's velocity increases, it generally makes a bigger wound channel at the expense of less penetration. There are some exceptions, like the WW Failsafe or the Lost River Ballistics, that don't make a very big wound channel at any velocity - and in that case, more speed delivers more penetration. But otherwise - if there is any risk to speed, it is bullet blow up.

Nomercy

You've got to remember a few things about Boddington, he's a PAID gunwriter and spokesperson...not necessarily everything that comes out of his mouth is his honest opinion, and even what he says that IS his real opinion needs to be taken with a grain of salt on most occasions...

For example, you refer to an article where testing showed large, slow bullets are deflected less when fired through brush....I seem to recall an article by Boddington from about 4-5yrs ago that made the exact opposite claim...Craig claimed that he would prefer a .22-250 in the brush to a .45-70 because the flatter trajectory and smaller bullet would allow him to sneak through clear shooting windows without impacting the brush more easily.

Personally, I like to have as good of guarantee as I can get before I take a shot. If it isn't clear, I'd rather let them walk than take an obstructed shot...if I don't get a clear shot all season, I didn't plan and prepare for my hunt right before season, my bad, I'm not going to run the risk of poor bullet placement to get a deer that I should have been open to in the first place.

bigcountry

I dare after his comment this last guns and ammo talking about wind bucking abilities of a 243 bullet over a 22-250. That comment right there said a mouthful and I usually like his articles.

G2 don't discount yourself as a regular shooter. I catch these jokers up all the time and there's nothing special about me. And usually when I email them, they write back with yea your right, don't see it published however. My last one I caught up with is "ross" whats his name that wrote he loads his 300RUM .004" from the rifling in his remington but still has room in his magazine. Then reports 3.59" COL. I raised the BS flag on that one. He has yet to reply.

G2 Shooter

Dag gone DM, do you have to use exclamation points at the end of all your sentences? No need to shout brotha.

And if you read my post, I am basing my opinions on my own personal experiences. I stated that at less than 100 yards, I have shot two whitetail deer, both does, with my .270WSM, loaded with Winchester Supreme 130 Ballistic Tip ammo and both of the shots were complete pass throughs without having a larger exit wound. I have seen 3" exit wounds on a deer when hit with a .45-70. I am sure that you and others have had success with BT or Spitzer style bullets. I am not saying that they do not work. I merely stated that at shorter distances, when confined to factory ammo, you should not dismiss the performance of a round nosed bullet. They have worked for a long time and will continue to work. Have I gotten better accuracy with a pointed tip bullet, of course. Do deer get killed with a pointed tip bullet, also yes. Both of those does died but one of them also ran almost 300 yards with a double lung shot.

As an ending staement, I agree with nomercy. I will not take a shot unless I am guaranteed that I can make a good, clean kill.

I am done with this thread.

DM

I can't help myself, i have to proof read what i write, and i'm hard of hearing!!!!

Drilling Man

Briman

Craig Boddington has never seen a cartridge that didn't have 'magnum' in its name that he hasn't turned his nose up at.


No doubt. But it sort of goes back to the old 9mm vs .45 argument that a 9mm can expand as as much as a .45, but a .45 will always make at least a .45 hole in things.