bigcountry

rost, I doubt you find too many people on this page that are looking to go to the nationals? I may be wrong

Roskoe

Jeff - although I guess there is no such thing as too accurate of a rifle, I generally don't advise my customers to do the bolt/action sleeving on guns that are to be carried afield - as I am presuming this Ultra Mag will be. Tolerances are too tight for reliability - dirt/dust issues. I do recommend you true up the action - lugs, threads, and receiver face - as well as the bolt face and bolt lugs - before installing the new barrel on a premium hunting rifle. This will usually result in a rifle that shoots 3" at 500 yards with good ammo - at a cost of about $450 to $500 complete. Going beyond that level of tweaking is really for only serious competition target guns, IMO - and then only in the hands of serious competition shooters. Regards. Roscoe

bigcountry

I am calling you boys out on this one. I know I can't do it. Especially with a 300RUM. There's a big difference between .4MOA at 100yards, and 3" at 500yards. Especially with the velocity spreads you get with a 300RUM from a "hunting" rifle.

Roskoe

I don't believe I have done one of these jobs on a .300 RUM yet - but the .30-338 and .300 Win Mags will do it, and so will the .30-378; as well as a bunch of smaller calibers. The .300 Weatherby, at least for me, has not been capable of this level of long range accuracy for some reason. And one of the best calibers for this long range precision shooting is the 6.5-284.

A lot of attention to detail needs to be put on the reloading process - sorting cases by weight, outside neck turning, primer pocket and flash hole reaming, bench rest primers, and lots of tweaking. And every gun, to some degree, is its own little world in terms of what it will do with certain loads - no matter how much you spend on it.

bigcountry

I totally believe the 6.5 is able to achieve .4MoA All the way to 500 yards. But with the massive amounts of powder in the RUM, I see upwards of 70fps velocity spreads. And at 500 yards, my groups can look like a oval due to this even though I can achieve .5MOA at 100yards. But this is with FL sized cartridges. I believe if I took my neck turned new cases (necks at .0014"), and fireformed them (which I am in the process of a batch of 100), then neck sized them and loaded and picked thru for concentricity, I could definately lower that 70fps spread to 30fps. On a 308 load I have, I can get 15fps spreads pretty easy. But havn't found a real consistent low spread RUM powder yet. I have been using H1000, RL22, RL25, and retumbo.

Roskoe

Maybe there is something inherent to the .300 RUM that make very narrow SD's of velocity impossible. Try all the usual match case prep stuff along with neck sizing and see if that doesn't shrink the spread. Also try a Federal 215M primer, if not already.

I've never owned a .300 Weatherby, so I don't have a good first hand feel for its SD potential - but wouldn't be surprised if it was in the same boat as you describe with the .300 RUM. The few I have built over the years can hit a pie plate at 500 yards reliably, but not much better than that. Both are great hunting rounds, though, at least for 99% of the hunters out there. The situations where the rifle, shooter; and conditions that could come together to make a 500 plus yard big game shot a responsible venture are pretty uncommon. Yet its nice to know you could, at least on paper . . . . . Roscoe

bigcountry

Roskoe, I seen the same thing on my 300Weatherby also. It seems to me, (not sure), anything that eats more than 80gr of powder velocity spreads increase alot. I hear alot of poster on other sights saying 7828 is the way to go. I just can't achieve my desired velocity with that. Anyway it goes, its a fun gun that I have killed moose with. Now, the gun is so heavy its not desirable for me to take on a Newfoundland trip. So I just shoot it for target now.

Now I have seen extreamly low spreads from 300WSM.

Roskoe

The only real exception I have seen to this 80 grain "rule" is the .30-378 Weatherby. I don't want to personally own one of these cannons; but I have built a number of them and the darn things will really shoot at long range. I think a pie plate at 750 yards would be a high percentage shot with a good one. For my money, I'll just sneak a couple hundred yards closer. Or maybe even drive a little ways closer . . .

stubblejumper

Coincidently many of the 1000 yard rifles now being used in competition burn more than 80gr of powder per shot.

rost495

Roscoe

I suspect you are right about bolt sleeving for the common folks. I don't really care about rapid fire with a bolt gun. Its only going to be one shot anyway. And FWIW my AR 15s aren't "sleeved" for sure and I reliably get 3-4 inch average groups at 600 yards with them. And the best "hummer" barrels have taken it down to 2 inches and under on occassion.

Big

Remember I stated originally from XX to XX amount depending. Up till last year I went to Camp Perry each year since 91. FWIW. I suspect that some posters would also be competitors. Its a great way to practice and to learn to shoot long range. Especially with iron sights. Which makes a 300 yard rifle shot with a scope seem easy.

As to groups-- Kirby Allen does a bunch of rifles and most all shoot around that 2 inch mark with load work at 500 yards. Most actually can be tweaked down a hair under even. I believe the 1000 yard record is under 2-3 inches for 5 shots and the 1 mile record is under 12 inches last I heard.

Don't get hung up on SD and ES. I used to and it cost me lots of time. I then found out what should be may not be. I then started just testing my ammo off my 600 yard bench here and the house and found out you have to go with what the target says. Don't get me wrong, I"ll take low figures anyday BUT only if they are good groups. Now stretch that out to around 1000 and it becomes a bit more important.

As Roscoe says, do a bit of work with the brass and powder choices and even primer choices and you can usually knock the figures down also.

Finally I'll have to argue with powder amounts having anything to do with group size. The amount of powder the 50 bmg fires is a bunch. Yet it'll shoot small groups way on out there. At least in my opinion. Though I've never fired a group less than about 15-16 inches at the mile mark. But I've never fired on a windstill day either. I've given the link to longrangehunting.com a few times. Go ask over there. Folks understand the accuracy over there.
I will admit that I get too hung up on accuracy for normal rifles and pistols, mostly due to my competitive background. Thats my fault but how can I avoid it? I want it. Especially in the case of wanting to make a longer shot.

Jeff