Inferior Rounds
02-11-2005, 04:30 PM
#51
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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RE: Inferior Rounds
ORIGINAL: bigbulls
In other states and places like military installations buck shot is the only thing you can legally use.
It's not the buck shot that wounds the animals. It's the people behind the trigger that do not respect the limitations of buck shot. That sounds very similar to what the anti's say about guns in general. You know.... "guns kill people".[:'(]
Yes it can definetly make a differance. Perhaps you should go out and actually pattern a shotgun sometime with different loads and different gagues. Charts like the one you quoted mean very little in the real hunting world.
Everything from the 243 on up is over kill for deer.
It also has a very fat case for its length. This can result in jams in fast cycling of the bolt. It also costs about twice as much to shoot.
In other states and places like military installations buck shot is the only thing you can legally use.
It's not the buck shot that wounds the animals. It's the people behind the trigger that do not respect the limitations of buck shot. That sounds very similar to what the anti's say about guns in general. You know.... "guns kill people".[:'(]
Yes it can definetly make a differance. Perhaps you should go out and actually pattern a shotgun sometime with different loads and different gagues. Charts like the one you quoted mean very little in the real hunting world.
Everything from the 243 on up is over kill for deer.
It also has a very fat case for its length. This can result in jams in fast cycling of the bolt. It also costs about twice as much to shoot.
Give me a list of states that you can only shoot buckshot.
You've just said it yourself. Buckshot has limitations. More than 40 yards and buckshot is pretty useless on deer.
If you think the 10 gauge is so much better than the 3 inch 12 gauge for geese, then get a 3 1/2 inch 12. It only goes 60 fps less than the 10 3 1/2. You can't argue with that.
If I remember correctly, on another thread you said you wouldn't use a cartridge for bear that wouldn't be considered overkill on deer. From what you said here, you would use a .243. What a nut.
The jamming is not even true bigbulls. They wouldn't be selling if that were true.
02-11-2005, 04:33 PM
#52
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RE: Inferior Rounds
How do you figure that? Let's look at Federal's ballistics table: A 10 gauge 1.7 oz (766 grain) hollow point slug leaves the muzzle traveling at 1280 fps packing 181 ft/lbs. The 20 gauge .7 oz (328 grain) hollow point slug leaves the barrel 1680 fps and 133 ft/lbs of energy. The 20 gauge is moving 400 fps faster yet the 10 has an extra 48 ft/lbs of energy. Out at 100 yards, the 10 gauge is moving 970 fps and 104 ft/lbs of energy. On the other hand, the 20 gauge is moving at 1111 fps yet only has 58 ft/lbs of energy. The 10 gauge has almost twice as much energy. Where I hunt, knockdown power is much more critical than speed. Please, I'm begging you, don't tell me what gauge is best for where I hunt. Around here, the 10 is better than the 20. However, the 12 has them both beat, but that's a whole 'nother thread.
I have seen geese at 30 yards shot with a 20 guage and not stop flying, especially with small steel. Sometimes BB, BBB, and even T won't knock 'em out of the air. Geese can take off of the ground if they have steel in them and did NOT get knocked off their feet. Geese are an amazingly though animal, and if you hunt them with 20 guages exclusively, you will miss many opportunities for dead birds when the 20's larger cousins will get you dinner.
I do not understand the "fad" of these short magnum calibers. I understand the helpfulness of having a lighter gun that employs a shorter action, but that's just a personal fit to individual hunters and shooters. And I'm not a particularly smart man, but I understand enough to know that if everything else is held equal, the same caliber will have superior ballistics out of a case with more powder.
And if you think I'm going to be giving up my 7MM Rem Mag for a SAUM, again, you are just wrong.
02-11-2005, 05:12 PM
#53
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: Inferior Rounds
Give me a list of states that you can only shoot buckshot.
You've just said it yourself. Buckshot has limitations. More than 40 yards and buckshot is pretty useless on deer.
If you think the 10 gauge is so much better than the 3 inch 12 gauge for geese, then get a 3 1/2 inch 12. It only goes 60 fps less than the 10 3 1/2. You can't argue with that.
If I remember correctly, on another thread you said you wouldn't use a cartridge for bear that wouldn't be considered overkill on deer. From what you said here, you would use a .243. What a nut.
The jamming is not even true bigbulls. They wouldn't be selling if that were true.
Please go read the book called "THE IDIOTS GUIDE TO GUNS" and come back when you actually learn something.
I am still waiting on your list of inferior rounds oh great wise one.
Please also tell us where you get this wealth of knowledge from. Is it from your extensive in the field experience?
Or is it from reading Guns and Ammo? Or is it something you conjured up all on your own?
02-11-2005, 05:39 PM
#54
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RE: Inferior Rounds
Fort A.P. Hill in Virginia.
In other states and places like military installations buck shot is the only thing you can legally use.
You've just said it yourself. Buckshot has limitations. More than 40 yards and buckshot is pretty useless on deer.
Well duh, but some things have more limitations than others.
Here you are arguing about how the 30-06, 270, etc... etc... are inferior because of the less velocity they produce compared to magnums and then you say that the 12 gauge 3.5 inch is superior to a 10 gauge and it only looses 60fps and now it's OK? Whick side of the fence are you going to sit on here. 60 fps is pretty substantial in the shot gun world.
Here you are arguing about how the 30-06, 270, etc... etc... are inferior because of the less velocity they produce compared to magnums and then you say that the 12 gauge 3.5 inch is superior to a 10 gauge and it only looses 60fps and now it's OK?
Don't sit there and try to put words into my mouth. Shooting a 150 pound deer and a 1200 pound grizzly bear are not even in the same world as far as hunting goes. No where did I even suggest a .243 would be a bear cartridge. No $#%& I would choose a rifle to hunt bears that would be considered over kill for deer.
02-11-2005, 06:13 PM
#55
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RE: Inferior Rounds
No $#%& I would choose a rifle to hunt bears that would be considered over kill for deer.
Everything from the 243 on up is over kill for deer.
02-11-2005, 06:50 PM
#56
Boone & Crockett
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RE: Inferior Rounds
This is a quote from you. Did you just mean a military installation in a state? If you meant that, I could really careless because that effects pretty much no one. From that quote of yours, you seem to be applying that there were states that wouldn't allow slugs.
Goochland, Louisa, Northumberland, Prince George, Prince William, & Westmoreland.
No I am not going to go to every states hunting regulations to proove you MORE wrong than I already have. When you are wrong you are wrong.
So from that you get that I suggest that I would use a 243 on Grizzly bears?
Again you are comparing apples to oranges. If you want to quote me then referance back to why I posted that in the first place.
quote:
It's overkill on deer. It has a long action and is a belted magnum. The recoil would be on the extreme side.
It's overkill on deer. It has a long action and is a belted magnum. The recoil would be on the extreme side.
Everything from the 243 on up is over kill for deer.
You said the flattest shooting round was the 7mmWSM and you were proven wrong by bawanajim.
The 7 WSM can take all the game in America and is the flattest of all calibers.
I've got something very similar to this. Here you are arguing that the WSMs should go away, they jam, and the difference isn't that big compared to the standard cartridges but yet you have a 300 WSM.
I will ask again.............
Please give us your list of inferior cartridges. You seem to know so little please show us how little you really know.
Please tell us where you get all of your information from so that we can also be as wise as you are.[8D]
02-11-2005, 07:19 PM
#57
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
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RE: Inferior Rounds
If you think the 10 gauge is so much better than the 3 inch 12 gauge for geese, then get a 3 1/2 inch 12. It only goes 60 fps less than the 10 3 1/2. You can't argue with that.
When people complain about the weight of a gun, my response is, it makes more sense for the gun carrier to loose 2 or 3 pounds of weight than to compromise the gun by trimming it down. people who hunt in the mountains are the exception, but I don't think anyone hunts waterfowl in the hill country of the mountains.
I personally have no use for a 3.5" 12 guage.
02-11-2005, 07:35 PM
#58
Boone & Crockett
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Posts: 10,679
RE: Inferior Rounds
The 25 WSSM has 14% less powder than the 25-06 but it goes just as fast because the powder burns more efficiently due to the fatter case.
Any other words of wisdom you want to throw out here?
02-11-2005, 09:18 PM
#59
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2004
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RE: Inferior Rounds
I have a whole list of inferior rifle rounds that should not be made anymore
Wake up people, there's a revolution going around.
02-11-2005, 09:38 PM
#60
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
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RE: Inferior Rounds
I've heard that a patched round ball out of a .50 flintlock won't kill deer anymore either. The ballistics just don't stack up well in comparison with a modern inline frontstuffer that shoots smokeless powder and space age saboted bullets. Its a good thing that people gave up on the old sparkies a long time ago as they have no place in modern day shooting.