Inferior Rounds
03-07-2005, 01:28 PM
#92
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 258
RE: Inferior Rounds
What I can't believe is that this thread has gone on for 10 pages.
This is obviously some kid who's had his nose buried in Winchester's sales broucheres for too long.
It's just too easy to imagine this kid pouring over the ballistic charts comparing foot pounds of pressure and trajectory tables and thinking that's all there is to hunting. I'm willing to bet he's never shot half of the calibers and gauges he's preached on much less hunted game with them.
My 10 gauge double is a great goose gun because of it's weight and 30 inch barrel. I can realy reach out and touch the big birds with deadly effect. I don't like wounding them. Trust me, a goose with a broken wing can still run for a long way.
Inside of 40 yards nothing kills better than buck shot. Nothing will bring down a deer faster than 15 .38 cal balls of lead at once. Of the 4 deer I've shot with it they have all ran a combined total of 0 yards. Yes that's right, 0 yards. Every single one of them dropped where it stood.
Everyone else has argued on behalf of the .410 quite well so I won't repeat what has already been said well enough of such a fine performing round/gauge.
Go shoot a couple hundred rounds of 20 gauge if you think it doesn't kick very much. I'm sporting a purple shoulder that will argue otherwise.
The short magnum that Winchester have come out with are all quality rounds that have their uses but don't believe the sales pitch too much. If the gun is going to kick, it's going to kick. That mercury recoil "thing" that Benelli came out with is nice but it won't make a 3 1/2 12 gauge feel like a 20 gauge no matter what anyone says. All of the other recoil reducers help but they do come with tradeoff's. Muzzle brakes do soften the kick but the noise will make you deaf and cause you to flinch even more than the recoil ever did.
The only significant advantage of a flat shooting round is that a 200 yard zero will still keep the round withing 6 inches of the reticle aiming point from 50 to 300 yards. That's awful nice if you can hold the rifle steady enough in actual hunting conditions. Most of us can't unless we drag out shooting sticks or a tripod. Heck I know of a guy who built an elevated blind with an actual bench rest equiped with a rifle vise. It's a pity to hear him say that he can't shoot well without it. The vast majority aff all deer I ever shot were within 150 yards. Half were within 50 while I still hunted or stand hunted from a tree stand from within the woods. I used an iron sighted 30-30 from a standing off hand position. If the deer apears out at 200 yards I just aim for it's back and the bullet will hit it's heart. Yep thats right, I've killed deer out to 200 yards with an iron sighted 30-30. Why not, it has more energy at 300 yards than a .357 magnum pistol at the muzzle. Care to argue the power of a .357 from point blank range?
The trouble with flat shooting rifles is that to get that kind of performance you have to use relatively light bullets. Light bullets don't hold together too well and fragment if they hit bone. To kill any animal you have to hit and destroy it's vital organs. Even deer shoulder bones will stop a light bullet. Don't preach to me about hydrostatic shock, I've heard it all before. It won't kill a grizzly while a heavy 500 grain cast lead 45/70 will.
This is obviously some kid who's had his nose buried in Winchester's sales broucheres for too long.
It's just too easy to imagine this kid pouring over the ballistic charts comparing foot pounds of pressure and trajectory tables and thinking that's all there is to hunting. I'm willing to bet he's never shot half of the calibers and gauges he's preached on much less hunted game with them.
My 10 gauge double is a great goose gun because of it's weight and 30 inch barrel. I can realy reach out and touch the big birds with deadly effect. I don't like wounding them. Trust me, a goose with a broken wing can still run for a long way.
Inside of 40 yards nothing kills better than buck shot. Nothing will bring down a deer faster than 15 .38 cal balls of lead at once. Of the 4 deer I've shot with it they have all ran a combined total of 0 yards. Yes that's right, 0 yards. Every single one of them dropped where it stood.
Everyone else has argued on behalf of the .410 quite well so I won't repeat what has already been said well enough of such a fine performing round/gauge.
Go shoot a couple hundred rounds of 20 gauge if you think it doesn't kick very much. I'm sporting a purple shoulder that will argue otherwise.
The short magnum that Winchester have come out with are all quality rounds that have their uses but don't believe the sales pitch too much. If the gun is going to kick, it's going to kick. That mercury recoil "thing" that Benelli came out with is nice but it won't make a 3 1/2 12 gauge feel like a 20 gauge no matter what anyone says. All of the other recoil reducers help but they do come with tradeoff's. Muzzle brakes do soften the kick but the noise will make you deaf and cause you to flinch even more than the recoil ever did.
The only significant advantage of a flat shooting round is that a 200 yard zero will still keep the round withing 6 inches of the reticle aiming point from 50 to 300 yards. That's awful nice if you can hold the rifle steady enough in actual hunting conditions. Most of us can't unless we drag out shooting sticks or a tripod. Heck I know of a guy who built an elevated blind with an actual bench rest equiped with a rifle vise. It's a pity to hear him say that he can't shoot well without it. The vast majority aff all deer I ever shot were within 150 yards. Half were within 50 while I still hunted or stand hunted from a tree stand from within the woods. I used an iron sighted 30-30 from a standing off hand position. If the deer apears out at 200 yards I just aim for it's back and the bullet will hit it's heart. Yep thats right, I've killed deer out to 200 yards with an iron sighted 30-30. Why not, it has more energy at 300 yards than a .357 magnum pistol at the muzzle. Care to argue the power of a .357 from point blank range?
The trouble with flat shooting rifles is that to get that kind of performance you have to use relatively light bullets. Light bullets don't hold together too well and fragment if they hit bone. To kill any animal you have to hit and destroy it's vital organs. Even deer shoulder bones will stop a light bullet. Don't preach to me about hydrostatic shock, I've heard it all before. It won't kill a grizzly while a heavy 500 grain cast lead 45/70 will.
03-07-2005, 07:20 PM
#93
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Amarillo, TX
Posts: 456
RE: Inferior Rounds
do you think the military should do away with the small caliber shells like the 155mm howitzer and just use the 2000lb H bomb? just wanted to know your thoughts on that too buckmaster7.
10-14-2005, 10:27 PM
#97
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: fort mcmurray alberta canada
Posts: 5,667
RE: Inferior Rounds
ORIGINAL: oldelkhunter
I cannot believe there are 10 pages of posts from otherwise sane people even arguing with this Nintendo user.
I cannot believe there are 10 pages of posts from otherwise sane people even arguing with this Nintendo user.
10-15-2005, 12:33 PM
#99
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Leesburg Fl
Posts: 3,245
RE: Inferior Rounds
ORIGINAL: yote_dude
this kid had good ideas. im gonna sell al my guns and hunt exclusively with magnums and a 20 ga. and im going to start trimming my toenails with a 3500 rpm dremel tool. same principal right? so im thinking 270 wsm for squirels and birds and the 300 wsm for coyotes and varmints and we'll save the mighty 20 ga for geese, deer and turkeys
this kid had good ideas. im gonna sell al my guns and hunt exclusively with magnums and a 20 ga. and im going to start trimming my toenails with a 3500 rpm dremel tool. same principal right? so im thinking 270 wsm for squirels and birds and the 300 wsm for coyotes and varmints and we'll save the mighty 20 ga for geese, deer and turkeys
well i guess that's what you would need to do going buy his principles...
10-15-2005, 12:36 PM
#100
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Leesburg Fl
Posts: 3,245
RE: Inferior Rounds
ORIGINAL: jaybird2
270,308,30-06 are here to stay! heres my opion. people that upgrade there rifles to mag or wsm calibers have no convidence in there shooting. most shoots are with in 100 yards and as far out to 300-350 yards if my 308 (270,280,30-06) cant take most big game (except maybe big bears) at these distances there is something wrong. remember one thing when picking your next caliber.ITS NOT THE GUN ITS THE GUNNER. shot placment is most importent. there is no animal in the world that can live with a hole in its heart.none.
270,308,30-06 are here to stay! heres my opion. people that upgrade there rifles to mag or wsm calibers have no convidence in there shooting. most shoots are with in 100 yards and as far out to 300-350 yards if my 308 (270,280,30-06) cant take most big game (except maybe big bears) at these distances there is something wrong. remember one thing when picking your next caliber.ITS NOT THE GUN ITS THE GUNNER. shot placment is most importent. there is no animal in the world that can live with a hole in its heart.none.