SWAMPMAN

Not true. I will never have "enough" guns.

max the dog

Buckmaster's got a good point. American gun manufactorers are getting a bit old fashoined or just plain lazy. Why should they upgrade their factory to modern standards when you can just outsource it to Japan and Russia.
Outsourceing is cheap and doesn't at first involve any risk. You can avoid all sorts of legal issues, labor unions, and high American wages by letting someone else do you production for you and then slap an American label on it and hope nobody notices. I notice, I won't buy any gun that doesn't say "Made in USA". My one exception is a 60 year old Spanish SXS that my father inherited from his father 35 years ago.

The problem with outsourceing is that the company looses the ability to make their own product. Shutting down a production line can be a pernament loss if the expertise that worked there moves on with their lives and gets into to other careers. Seriously, can you restart a factory after it being closed for 20 years and truelly expect it to function like it used to? It's not just the loss of the guys on the production line that gets lost it's also the guys who direct the production line. Good managment is tough to find and good managment with expertise in the field you specialize are very rare. It could take a guy 30+ years before he gets any good at factory management where he can have his product compete internationaly. Close that factory and you loose that guy.

The problem with outsourceing is also problems happen that are out of your control. Now that most of our clothes are made in China, what's going to happen if we ever go to war with China, go naked??? A strike in Russia, political instability in Asia or heck anything else could shut down a good American company because they outsourced too much.

MinnFinn

I've had great success with Benelli M1 Super 90.. It's reliable a shotgun as I've ever owned, little recoil, well balanced. I like the easy break down for cleaning, too. No gas operated holes/mechananism to get gunked up.

Tikka T3. One of the most accurate out of the box quality rifles for the money made. Can't compare a Ruger trigger to a Tikka. Floating barrel. Great design. Exceptional firearm.

xd9x19

I find it amusing that some use the term "invest" when buying a higher-dollar firearm. As these items go down in value after "investment", I suppose this is the same as someone convincing themselves they "saved" money by spending money to buy something because it's on sale.

GRIZZLYMAN

I guess it's all in the mind set. If I buy a high quality gun and it loses value, so what? I'm not planning on selling it. I've got guns that I bought new 30 years ago that I still have and with proper cleaning and maintenance they will work for another 30.

I had an old boss that laughed at me because I bought new vehicles. He leased and traded every three years and went on about resale. When I told him that my vehicles last at least ten years, he quit laughing. If you are intending to turn around and sell your guns this argument might fly, but not for people like me.

Rebel Hog

Right ON, Grizzly!

bigcountry

You know I see this quite a bit. Somebody being amused by someone else's thought process or opinion. Maybe I have done it myself. If so I surely appologize. Nobody knows everything I have learned, and we could all learn a new trick.

As far as investments. Thats the way I look at Auto-5's. I know they will only go up in price. Probably the way some buy M1's, or old lugers.

SWAMPMAN

BC,
I'm always on the lookout for an authentic M1D.

MinnFinn

XD - It all depends upon what firearms a person buys (quality or less then), how well one takes care of them and how long one keeps them. Maybe you haven't been around long enough to see how quality, well cared for firearms have by in large gone up in value of the past 30-40 years like I have. I remember my brother who used to regularly buy beautiful rifles, shotguns, etc. in the 60's and early 70's only to eventually sell most of them about 20 years ago. He's kicked himself many times since then for what they'd be worth today.

There's also much more to a fine quality firearm than the price, if it come from a manufacturer with a reputation for making high quality firearms. There is the pleasure in the excellent features that make them fit well, function consistently well and to hold up for years of fine use without many of the problems some others have. Anything mechanical can eventually break. But my experience is that a high quality firearm is worth the cost and use it brings with it.

eldeguello

CZ has recently RETURNED to the U.S. market in strength, but there have been CVZ/BRNO arms sold here since prior to WWII.

My feeling is that European firearms made for the European market are generally of higher quality (and cost) than the mass-produced stuff made here, or made elsewhere, for the U.S. market. One of the reasons for this is that in Europe, only the wealthy and powerful can hunt or even afford to purchase firearms, unlike here in the U.S.! Guns made for the U.S. mass market have to be cheap in order to have enough buyers to keep a company in business. This is a major reason why outfits like Remington produce stuff that no self-respecting European hunter would give houseroom to! The beancounters are in charge at places like Remington, NOT gun fanciers! This is the reason for stuff like the post-64 push-feed M70 and soldered-on bolt handles, bolt heads, etc.