NVMIKE

The coment trying to justify the 223 as a good killer based on the military using the 223, needs to do a little research, that round was "DESIGNED TO WOUND" as the brass who was polishing his A$$ thought it was a good idea to wound one man, thereby tying up several others trying to rescue/care for the ONE who was hit. Meanwhile they aren't getting shot at by these wounded soldiers like the boys on the front lines. Over the years its proved to WORK ON PAPER,but alot of front line guys in the military blame it for a lot of U.S. casualties.

texhookem

I live in texas and lots of people use hot 22's for deer(223, 22-250, 220 swift) and with a good bullet i.e. 55 or 60 grain partition, trophy bonded or the like will kill a deer just fine if you put a good shot on it. A guy i hunt with uses a 220 swift for everything, he even killed a nilgai bull(texas import which in some parts of texas is free ranging) with it, granted it was a neck shot but still that nilgai had to have weighed over 600 pounds. If your accurate with it and use proper bullets hot 22's are just fine for deer.

texhookem

NVMIKE, where did u get that idea that the 223 was designed to wound. Hell i bet the 223 has killed as many people as almost any other cartride(7.62 soviet, 9mm maybe and some WWII cartridges killed more)

zrexpilot

yep ! were just better shots here in Texas. Here in texas we come out of the womb with a daisy red rider. LOL.

fastfire

25 caliber on up ????????????
so you saying even a 25-20 is ok to hunt deer????

fastfire

I can see that this dude has never been to far from home!
As the same can be said about a scope.

newguy23

In my opinion to be a good shot with open sights takes a lot of practice (I am not talking about 10 yards, I am referring to shots at more than 75+). With a scope I can take a person whom has barely hunted and they can put the cross hairs on a target and "boom" can hit it the first time at 100 yards! That was my point... People whom aren't going to take the time to practice enough to be a good shot with open sights, should not hunt with them. You only need minimal shooting with a scope.

fastfire

People who don't practice enough don't belong hunting period!!!!!!!!!
To much of a chance with or with out a scope of wounding & not getting a clean kill.

USMC PMI

Please read this link about the 5.56x45 (.223 for you civilian types) There were decades of development in creating this caliber for military use, it is more effective than many think although there have been many issues with the caliber and the weapons designed to use it. [link]http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw.html[/link]
Basic requirements of the 5.56x45 are:
Must have at least 1080 fps @ 500 yards
Must penetrate the issued helmet and body armor @ 500 yards
Must penetrate a .135" steel plate @ 500 yards
Maintain or exceed the trajectory, accuracy, and wounding ability of the .30 cal M2 ball (30-06) fired from the M1 Grand
The military assisted in developing this round because is is lighter than the .30 cal ammo, so a troop can carry more rounds. The chance of hitting your target increases dramatically, one test showed that around 60% of troops using the 5.56 scored expert while only around 16% scored expert with the 7.62x51 (.308) Bottom line, you must hit your target to stop him. The hit rate increases if you "spray" a 20" area with a three round burst. The 5.56 can be controlled in full auto/burst mode more effectively and is light enough to carry the extra required ammo to do so. The current trend in Europe is even a smaller projectile in a shorter/fatter case, H&K is working on a 4.something size round for their handguns and rifles. Much of the world has adopted the 5.56 not just the US, it is the NATO round designated for an infantry rifle. While there has been some testing of the new 6.8 SPC FOR LIMITED CLOSE AND MEDIUM RANGE APPLICATIONS, the 5.56 is still the standard and will most likey stay the standard throughout most of my natural life for any current or new infantry rifle. Here is a link for the 6.8 SPC if interested. [link]http://www.gunblast.com/Barrett-M468.htm[/link]
I like the 6.8 SPC but realize that it will be utilized for special purposes only in the military for now, I would guess CQB/Urban warfare.

None the less if a 5.56 will penetrate .135" of steel, and an issue helmet and body armor @ 500 yards, why not a deer? Do deer have a .136" plate of steel over their vitals at birth? Why would the caliber be legal in some areas if it were so ineffective? Seems to be a lot of tree hugging bunny lovers floating around in this forum, we do not need caliber standards for deer, it would work something like this with out the standard: If you choose to use a small caliber and fail to deliver proper shot placement and your dumb A$$ looses your game, shame on you. Guess you will go get a super double mag and deliver the same poor shot placement and still not track the animinal and loose your game or you may even walk to the animinal and recover the 50% of meat that you didn't destroy. I better save up for the Barrett .50 BMG in semi-auto, may be the only weapon allowed to hunt deer in a few years if these sandled hemp shirt wearing, animinals are the people's thinking, communist hippies have their way. Soon our borders will say "welcome to the US(SR)". By the way, I never saw "deer caliber" written on any box of ammo so enlighten me please, what is it and who/what determines it. As far as penetration, broadside the deers heart is no more than 4" to 5" in it's chest cavity at most. Why would you need a caliber capiable of 35" of penetration? Oh, because many of you do not have the proper marksmanship skills to even be hunting in the first place and hit the deer right in the shoulder and expect the bullet to penetrate bone, the body cavity, then bone again and exit as a pin hole. I think you should have to pass a marksmanship test to hunt, in many countries you do. I am done with this topic, attracting too many liberals and the puke they spew from their mouth is making me ill.

frizzellr

Lot of difference between AP, ball and hunting ammo. Penetration with a 22 cal doesn't mean squat without expansion when you are looking for a quick, clean kill.