Night Hawk 223

sence you know all! why dont you tell the military that they they should not use the 223 because it was intended as a varment round and that is the only use for it!
i am not saying i would use a 223 for deer. but that does not mean some one could not ethically hunt deer with it.

zrexpilot

I dunno where you guys come up with this. I have used a .243 most of my life and I have never had the bullet not pass through the vitals of a deer or hog. Even at 300yds with a crappy core lockt. On the other side of what you said, other guys say
" oh its to fast and goes right through them so fast they dont feel it." Buwahahaha ! to tell you the truth I dont think you all know what ya'll are talking about. one says no penetration the other says to fast through them. A 25 is but a paper thickness bigger and 15 gr. heavier, Oooooo man, thats a big difference. LOL. you guys crack me up. I have killed two deer with one shot from a .243. No penetration, Buwahahahahah!

newguy23

Slow down... I said that if you are an experienced shooter than open sights are fine... I just have found that new shooters hit their target more consistently with a scope... At 100 yards what do you think the unexperienced shooter could hit consistently with open sights... Maybe within 2 feet at best... What do you think that same shooter could do with a 7x or 9x scope, probably 6 inches (a good estimate of an accurate shot on a deer). Do you see my point?

If you were able to show me that you could hit a six inch plate at 100 yards with open sights I would have no problem calling that ethical... In my experience, most people can't. If you can kudos, seriously! I know I can't...

As for the 223, I am no military expert, but aren't they moving to something like a 6.5 mm or something... It seems like they are not that pleased with the .223 as a killing weapon. Again I am sure a 223 could kill a deer, so could a 22 long rifle, but why not use the correct weapon for the correct animal!

As for the 243, this has been proven as a deer cartridge... I think it was Outdoor life that picke their deer cartridges and it ran something like... 243, 257 roberts, 260, 7mm-08, 25-06, and 30-06, and they noted that all would be great deer rounds.

jcb9901

The military does not care if they get a clean kill ,they want a round that causes massive tissue damage.they also don't use hunting rounds in there rifles.they use ss109 steel core,m855 tracer,and m193 55gr very unstable and tumble on impact to increase tissue damage ,just to name a few very different from hunting rounds.

jcb9901

I think your under estimating your ability,100yrds is not that far.you should try it I think you would be surprized unless you have bad eyes limiting your ability to see the target.scopes can be a hinderence at close range on a deer as all you see is a brown blob in the scope and can tell if your on the front or rear of deer,that why I like raise scope mounts so I can drop down to iron sights and see where I'm aiming.

frizzellr

Most of us in the military would much rather have a better round than that gopher getter. Wounded men can still shoot you and that has been proven more and more as of late.

Night Hawk 223

newguy23 ok i have thought about all of this and i think i was too hard on you. and for that i am sorry! I think you might be right i cant remember ever seeing kids at the range other than mine that where shooting with open sights. even 22s, and bb guns where scoped. maybe a lot of kids now days havent used open sights i dont know. all i know is that my son has never used a scope. he has scopes and he wants to use them but i refuse to put one on any of his guns intell he has mastered open sights. that was the way i was raised and i agree with it. but if your freinds are hunting with open sights they should be practiceing with them and they should know what distance they cant hit there target. and not shoot over that distance.

Night Hawk 223

also i do not use a 223 for hunting deer and i am no military expert ether so i should have kept my mouth shut about that. at least i will admit that i was wrong.

newguy23

hey nighthawk... No harm no foul...

I agree, when target shooting I might be able to put holes within a 12" area at maybe 75 yards or so... But when that big buck comes along and my adrenaline starts running, forget it...

Also I dont' get enough time to practice, I live in the city and travel a lot for my job. I can barely get out to hunt as much as I want. I ussually just sight in my gun and go.

Again, I am sure their are people whom shoot open sights great... I know people whom can hit a six inch plate consistently with their 1911 pistols (NOT me!). If you can wonderful, I just think you would be surprised how many people could not hit the broad side of a barn with them!

hoyt14

Night Hawk-

Not to be telling you how to raise your kids (I’m only 16) but if your kid wants to use a scope I don't see why you wouldn't let him. I mean I’m BIG into the bow hunting and the thing I’m kind of comparing it to is shooting sights over instinctive shooting. I'm sorry but if I want to hunt a certain way there isn't a chance that I would let my dad make me "master" something I don't want to follow up on. I understand you want him to be raised like you were (my dad's the same way and I know all fathers are) but why not let the boy shot how he wants?? I’ve shot with a scope since I was about five with a .22, and moved up in caliber and load size since. Now I can pick quarters off at 300 with our 22.250 90%-95% of the time. But like I said guns aren't my thing, the bow is, and I’ve got 2" groups at 50 yards from lots of practice. Sorry if you take this the wrong way; I didn't mean to rub this the wrong way, but if your kid can make a clean kill with open sights or a scope does it really matter??

-Hoyt