Elk Hammer
10-24-2004, 11:39 AM
#41
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,052
RE: Elk Hammer
I have only elk hunted once but I guess I got REALLY lucky with a 6x6 368" Gilamonster in western NM. My superfast, laserflat "hammer" that was used? A 22" barreled 50cal Knight Wolverine muzzleloader with 2 tabs of Pyro under a 250grn Xbullet. LOL it wasnt a spectacular kill at 30 yds (RUINED the lungs!) but the bull crashed up 30yds away. The head still hangs in my brothers sporting goods shop and I doubt it would tell you that it has much preference for either a big ole bullet goin slow or a lil bitty one goin fast!
But I DO have two theories of gunning for non-dangerous game that have worked awfully well for me in 20+ years of chasing em allover the continent. Lil bitty bullets traveling WAAAAY too fast (I characterize my 150Lazerheads from my Warbird @ 3800fps as just such) or big ole slow moving freight trains that leave big holes and damage alot of tissue (like most muzzleloaders and 444/45-70 type rounds). IMO "knockdown" doesnt mean squat. If that were so you wouldnt kill deer with a bow and arrow or whack deer silly @ 200yds with a 454 handgun. What about the deer I have seen sent arse over tea kettle at 500yds with a 270/30-06 type offering? They werent freight trained into the dirt but the animals were just as dead, albeit a short run into the woods and a quick expiration. I know from experience that when HAMMERED into oblivion like they are with my Warbird the kills are quick and usually of the "straight down" variety. But I equate that more as a result of a bullet doing @ 300yds what it normally does at the muzzle from a 30-06. Im sure if I could get close enough to touch them with the barrel of my 06 they would die equally as fast.
Another "boosheut theory" I think about knockdown is the fact that someone came up with the figure that deer needed 800-1k ft pds of energy to be reliably taken down. Yet for an elk which typically is 8-10 times LARGER than most deer they only needed another 500-1k ft pds of energy? What on earth makes that analogy seem viable?
I think its more the "shockwave" and overloading the central nervous system that puts their lights out (with respect too light bullets). I differentiate that from "knockdown" as a result of the bullets quickly exiting the animal so obviously the full "ft pds of energy" wasnt transferred into the carcass. When I go back for elk with a rifle? LOL I will be carrying a box of Lazzeroni's high velocity 180 grain bullets (mid 3500fps range) and if someone asks I will tell them that the charts "say" that the bullet produces around 5500 ft pds of energy (thats 458 Mag numbers if your comparin). But I know that it will really allow me to GO LONG and reliably penetrate the animal where ever he offers me a shot. Thats really my only goal, perforate the boiler room and they WILL die. It just takes velocity and weight to get there sometimes. Trophy heads typically dont pose broadside at closerange and wait for you to take "that perfect shot".
THATS my .01/2c for all its worth,
RA
ps
I remember seeing a report once done by the military where they fired "objects" from rail gun type setups at velocities well over 10k fps. They likewise fired them closely over the backs of game animals (but not actually touching them) and reported spectacular kills with the animals having nothing more than some hair removed from atop their backs. THAT sounds like the shockwave theory taken to extremes... are railguns the next thing in long range hunting??? lmao
But I DO have two theories of gunning for non-dangerous game that have worked awfully well for me in 20+ years of chasing em allover the continent. Lil bitty bullets traveling WAAAAY too fast (I characterize my 150Lazerheads from my Warbird @ 3800fps as just such) or big ole slow moving freight trains that leave big holes and damage alot of tissue (like most muzzleloaders and 444/45-70 type rounds). IMO "knockdown" doesnt mean squat. If that were so you wouldnt kill deer with a bow and arrow or whack deer silly @ 200yds with a 454 handgun. What about the deer I have seen sent arse over tea kettle at 500yds with a 270/30-06 type offering? They werent freight trained into the dirt but the animals were just as dead, albeit a short run into the woods and a quick expiration. I know from experience that when HAMMERED into oblivion like they are with my Warbird the kills are quick and usually of the "straight down" variety. But I equate that more as a result of a bullet doing @ 300yds what it normally does at the muzzle from a 30-06. Im sure if I could get close enough to touch them with the barrel of my 06 they would die equally as fast.
Another "boosheut theory" I think about knockdown is the fact that someone came up with the figure that deer needed 800-1k ft pds of energy to be reliably taken down. Yet for an elk which typically is 8-10 times LARGER than most deer they only needed another 500-1k ft pds of energy? What on earth makes that analogy seem viable?
I think its more the "shockwave" and overloading the central nervous system that puts their lights out (with respect too light bullets). I differentiate that from "knockdown" as a result of the bullets quickly exiting the animal so obviously the full "ft pds of energy" wasnt transferred into the carcass. When I go back for elk with a rifle? LOL I will be carrying a box of Lazzeroni's high velocity 180 grain bullets (mid 3500fps range) and if someone asks I will tell them that the charts "say" that the bullet produces around 5500 ft pds of energy (thats 458 Mag numbers if your comparin). But I know that it will really allow me to GO LONG and reliably penetrate the animal where ever he offers me a shot. Thats really my only goal, perforate the boiler room and they WILL die. It just takes velocity and weight to get there sometimes. Trophy heads typically dont pose broadside at closerange and wait for you to take "that perfect shot".
THATS my .01/2c for all its worth,
RA
ps
I remember seeing a report once done by the military where they fired "objects" from rail gun type setups at velocities well over 10k fps. They likewise fired them closely over the backs of game animals (but not actually touching them) and reported spectacular kills with the animals having nothing more than some hair removed from atop their backs. THAT sounds like the shockwave theory taken to extremes... are railguns the next thing in long range hunting??? lmao
