PAHUNTER21

During a recent discussion with a friend, the question arose:

"Is it legal to carry a concealed hangun with a valid permit into a place of business that serves alcohol (Bar, liquer store) in the state of Pennsylvania?"

After doing much research, I was unable to find the answer to this question.

Any of you guys/gals know the answer to this? If so can you provide me a link that states one way or the other?

Thank you for you help in advance.

James B

This is most likely a State law thing. In South Dakota you are not allowed to carry a conceled weapon with or without a carry permit into a place that does 50 percent of thier business in booze. That would be about any bar and most night clubs. I believe that also goes for government buildings and hospitals.

bb122

I live in Texas now after 25 years in PA. I do not think that it is legal to carry a firearm (permit or not) into an establishment that serves alcohol. I don't think that it is legal in TX either.

Ruger-Redhawk

If I'm correct here in Florida you can carry a concealed weapon in a Resturant that servers alcohol if the primary business is food.Regular alcohol establishments is a BIG no no. I saw on another site where Tennessee is trying to make carrying in bars legal. I'm not sure I'm for Carrying in Bar.That could be a big mistake in my opinion. I'm all for CCW's but in bars I have second thoughts.
Ruger Redhawk

Clint.

Sometimes the beer gets to talkin'.
It might be awful easy to let the gun get to talkin' when that happens.
It's best to leave it home or at least in the truck.
Valid permit or not.

Clint

bigbulls

http://www.packing.org/
They got all the laws for all the states listed there.





Pennsylvania Constitution
Article I, Section 21


The right of the citizens to bear arms in defence of
themselves and the State shall not be questioned.


History for this field
How do I apply for a Permit/License?
Date updated: Thursday, August 7, 2003
You must be 21 to apply for a Concealed Firearms Permit.

Pennsylvania is a shall issue state handled by County Sheriff's offices with the exception of the city of Philadelphia which is handled by the Police Department. An application form is required. Whether you need to apply in person is dependent upon the county. There are some other differences as some counties require a passport like photograph for processing.

The Sheriff of Centre Co. PA., Denny Nau, will issue Via mail to Non Residents of Pennsylvania. Residents of Pennsylvania must apply to the sheriff of the county they live in. Instructions and an application that you can download are available from the Site below.


Centre County Sheriff
Centre County Courthouse
Bellefonte PA 16823-1488
(814) 355-6803
Centre Co. Sheriff's Web Site.

History for this field
Documents required
Date updated: Monday, July 28, 2003
Recent Photo
Names, Address, Phone number's of Two References.
Non Resident Permit if a non resident applying for a PA permit. (Non residents from states that do not issue permits can apply.)
Most counties want a photo but many do not put it on the Permit.
Most counties want a copy of your driver's license or state issued ID.

History for this field
Issuing authority
Date updated: Friday, February 7, 2003
Local Sheriff's Office
History for this field
Permit/License term
5 years
Approximate cost
Date updated: Friday, February 7, 2003
$19

History for this field
Places off-limits while carrying
Date updated: Saturday, May 17, 2003
Court Houses
Primary and Secondary Schools and their Property.

Title 18 Section 913 Possession of firearm or other dangerous weapon in court facility.


(a) Offense defined.--A person commits an offense if he:

1. knowingly possesses a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a court facility or knowingly causes a firearm or other dangerous weapon to be present in a court facility; or

2. knowingly possesses a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a court facility with the intent that the firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime or knowingly causes a firearm or other dangerous weapon to be present in a court facility with the intent that the firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime.


Title 18 § 912 Possession of weapon on school property.


(a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nun-chuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.

(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.

(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.



Admin Note: A poster on 5/17/03 posted a reply from the PA Attorney General. The AG would not answer his request for an answer to his questions on places off limits and CCW holders but did say that there were no rulings about PA Code 18-912 concerning Permit Holders and School Property. Use Caution.


History for this field
Car/Gun law summary
Date updated: Saturday, May 17, 2003

18 § 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.


(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree. (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to: 11. Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.

(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

1. Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.

2. Members of the army, navy or marine corps of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.

3. The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United States or from this Commonwealth.

4. Any persons engaged in target shooting with rifle, pistol, or revolver, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the cartridges or shells are carried in a separate container and the rifle, pistol or revolver is unloaded.

5. Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm.

6. Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.

7. Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.

8. Any person while carrying a firearm unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police) or to a location to which the person has been directed to surrender firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the surrendered firearm.

9. Persons licensed to hunt, take fur bearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking fur bearers or fishing or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take fur bearers or fish or returning from such places.

10. Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.

11. Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.



History for this field
Must inform Law Enforcement when Carrying
Date updated: Sunday, November 10, 2002
NO
History for this field
Carrying without a Permit/License
Date updated: Sunday, February 1, 2004

18 § 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.


(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Non-Resident Police Officer Carry



Law Enforcement Carry Map


History for this field
Peaceable journey law summary:
Date updated: Thursday, February 5, 2004
18 § 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.


(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
11. Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.


Pennsylvania Body armor laws can be found in Title 18 § 907.


Knife Carry:

18.908 "Offensive weapons."


Any bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, firearm specially made or specially adapted for concealment or silent discharge, any blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, razor or cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism, or otherwise, or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose.

Admin Note: Pennsylvania law does not mention a specific blade length in their law. More Information can be found Here



History for this field
State/local preemption law:
Date updated: Saturday, November 30, 2002
Title 18 § 6120. Limitation on the regulation of firearms and ammunition.


(a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.

(a.1) No right of action.

1. No political subdivision may bring or maintain an action at law or in equity against any firearms or ammunition manufacturer, trade association or dealer for damages, abatement, injunctive relief or any other relief or remedy resulting from or relating to either the lawful design or manufacture of firearms or ammunition or the lawful marketing or sale of firearms or ammunition to the public.

2. Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to prohibit a political subdivision from bringing or maintaining an action against a firearms or ammunition manufacturer or dealer for breach of contract or warranty as to firearms or ammunition purchased by the political subdivision.

(b) Definitions.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:
"Dealer."
The term shall include any person engaged in the business of selling at wholesale or retail a firearm or ammunition. "Firearms." This term shall have the meaning given to it in section 5515 (relating to prohibiting of paramilitary training) but shall not include air rifles as that term is defined in section 6304 (relating to sale and use of air rifles). "Political subdivision." The term shall include any home rule charter municipality, county, city, borough, incorporated town, township or school district.

Charley

Texas law statesb) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionaly, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25,28,32,69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51% or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption...

Short form, in Texas it is NOT illegal to enter a business where alcohol is sold (such as a restaurant), but it IS illegal if 51% or more of the business income is derived from alcohol. (such as a bar). TABC provides signs to such businesses, and they must be posted at entry points.

akbound

Hi PAHUNTER21,

When you apply and receive your concealed carry permit in Pennsylvania if they do not automatically provide you with a copy of laws regarding concealed carry......ask for them. They are available at county seats...where the permits are issued!

As a side issue regarding the carrying of firearms in facilities where alcohol is served. (And I know there are probably many opposing views in this regard....but.....) As I would not go to a range where I know alcohol and firearms are mixed. As I would not go to either a camp or on a hunt where alcohol and firearms are mixed. (I have been to a camp that an evening drink or two was acceptable......after all the guns were unloaded and put away for the evening.....no exceptions.) I would not as a matter of course carry a firearm....where alcohol is served. That being said, I'll add this. I don't as a matter of course frequent those establishments.

This comment is based on my personal experience. So if anyone elses experience has been different that is fine......you don't need to take exception with me.......as I said....."based on my experience". When I was considerably younger.....I did on occasion frequent bars. And I will unequivocally state.....that 95% of all altercations I have ever been directly or indirectly involved in......were in some way related to alcohol consumption! Because of that.....I adjusted my lifestyle!

I enjoy my liberty and freedom too much to put it even at the slightest risk by exercising "questionable judgement" concerning carrying a concealed weapon. Additionally, all it will take is "ONE" incident.....of a person using "poor judgement" while carrying concealed to fuel even further the significant efforts of others to deprive us all of those rights! And finally, it has been established by legal precedent, that the courts will "hold you to a higher standard of care"......if you ever need to use a concealed weapon for self defense. If you have in any way contributed to.....esculated.....or failed to take appropriate preventive measures to diffuse a possible lethal confrontation.......you will be judged harshly!

My personal recommendation is if you want to patronize an establishment serving alcohol.....leave the weapon at home. If you feel like you don't want to go unarmed....."eat somewhere else". If that sounds like a burden.....it is! When we elected to carry concealed....we elect to accept an additional burden. That burden is an increased acceptance of responsibility. An increased acceptance that if we exercise "bad judgement" not only may our rights and freedoms be put at risk....but the reputations and rights of all "lawful, responsible, gun owners, (particularly CCW permit holders), are also "on the line as a result of our behavior". And all it will take is one highly publicized incident of some nitwit.....to endanger the rights of all of the rest of us!

When in doubt......take the high road!

Dave

P.S. Even if you are not drinking.....don't forget there is a facility full of people that are. And frequently.....they are NOT exercising good judgement! And just for clarification....I'm not talking about establishments like Red Lobster, etc.....where typically people may have a drink with a meal. I'm talking about bars/grills that are predominantly drinking establishments. (If you don't know the difference....let the gun behind.)

PAHUNTER21

I understand the reason for this post and you have a very good point, however I'm not questioning if 'its a good idea' or not.

Yeah I was at this site before as well as many others, and could not find the answer. Am I reading past something?

From what I'm reading, it's school property and courthouses.



Thanks for your help guys. Any more info that can tell me if it's legal or not would be great.

This is as close as I've gotten. http://www.packing.org/news/article.jsp/7795


Thanks,
BJ

PAHUNTER21

I have also read:

Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes
CRIMES AND OFFENSES (TITLE 18) - Chapter 61 - Sub Chapter A - Uniform Firearms Act
http://members.aol.com/StatutesP2/18.Cp.61A.html

and have not found any evidence to prove or disprove that firearms are illegal in bars.


Hrm..... [:'(]