akbound

Hi Gordon,

Essentially I believe we are in agreement. Though I have spoken to a number of professionals that believe they would much prefer to see a .375 H&H instead of a .378 Weatherby. Or a .458 Lott or a .416 Rigby to a .460 Weatherby. Simply because they believe from experience that solids penetrate on a straight line best if not push beyond a certain threshold. It is true the additional recoil to a large degree affects many hunter's ability to shoot it well....but that aside they also believe too much velocity actually works against performance. They all agree with your statement do not try to substitute velocity for bore size on truly heavy game! The biggest bug-a-boo though are cartridges that operate at very high chamber pressures....and then have real problems in climates with extreme heat. And this includes many of Weatherby's factory loads, the .416 Remington, and the older loadings of the .458 Winchester (which also like the .416 Remington have at times been factory loaded with too much compression of powder....and literally the bullets start to "walk out of the case" over time. Which really leads to erratic chamber pressures and/or jammed actions when the bullets work out enough to jam the action.)

And of course higher velocity will nearly always translate directly to an increase in blood shot meat. Which I understand is an unavoidable consequence of high velocity bullets when they impact muscle tissue. But in instances where the job can be done efficiently with less velocity...it may then be preferable to do so. Of course like Jack O'Connor once said, "I'd rather lose an extra ten pounds of meat and harvest the deer, than lose the whole d**m thing", or words to that effect!

Dave

James B

AK Oh so true.

bowace

I have both of the 300's and since shooting and taking whitetails and elk with the 300WSM it is my first choice. I'm retiring the all of my 300 win mags. Don't really even need them anymore. If your looking for a choice between the two the only advantage that the 300 win mag has is that you can probably find factory bullets in Rifle, Colo. and the WSM's may be a little harder to find. But next year everyone will have the WSM's, so no problem.

PAhunter86

only one thing I disagree with.......why can't a 16 year old have a Ferrari??

GordonGekko

Dave,
You are correct we are on the same wavelength here, and I would like to add that it has been great to discuss this issue with you. Sometimes unfortunately people can be so strongly for or against something that they never see the middle ground, and that is often where the truth lies (now that's an interesting statment). Anytime I run across someone as lucid and thoughtful as yourself on a hunting forum it gives me hope that we are headed in the right direction as a community. Oh, and the last quote that you included is one of my personal mantra's, along with "use enough gun".

Gordon

rcd567

Well Sir,
I've recently bought a Browning BAR in 300 WSM, and it has a BOSS system to boot! To some of you I'm sure you believe me an idiot. Thats fine, you don't know me but I'll still give a opinion. Now I didn't belief the hype of the Boss system...I never questioned the WSM after I researched the cartridge.

However, I sighted the rifle at 100 yards, and dialed the BOSS system in. The end it shot two three round groups. Each was one hole that you could cover with a dime. This was done with Winchester 150 grain ballistic silvertips.

Now is it the cartridge? The rifle? The scope? I suggest it's a combination of all three. But I'll stir the pot even further and say that this automatic is as accurate as any bolt action rifle out there.

I agree with the person that says if you currently own a 300 Winchester Magnum, there really isn't a reason to buy a Short Magnum other than that you want one. In the Short Magnum line, the 300 was the first and continues to outsell the others. It's well worth a good look if your in the market for a big rifle.

eldeguello

IF you want a magnum, get one! If you want a standard cartridge, get one! The 300 WSM is neither fish nor fowl! It CANNOT equal the regular 300 Win. Mag., if that round is loaded to it's full potential. Yes, the 300 WSM will beat the .30/'06, but not by much! I'd definitely choose the .300 Win. Mag., or the .300 Weatherby (even better for BIG game!!)

oldelkhunter

RCD567

After reading some of the drivel written before this i had to jump in here and voice my opinion. I believe you are enjoying the benefits of owning a very accurate rifle matched with an inherently accurate cartridge. I have owned BAR's in other calibers as well as hunt with a group of people that own them . Every last one shoots beautifully and most would shame bolt action rifles with factory ammunition. None of these are handloaded propositions all pretty much use Federal or Hornady Ammo. As far as the 300 wsm goes I have owned 2 of them in bolt guns one a stainless stalker and another Model 70 ss Classic...my beef with the cartridge is that it does not feed smoothly in most bolt guns(not a factor with an Auto ). I handloaded that cartridge with data available at the time and used predominately 180 grain bullets but also dabbled in some 150 grain bullets...All my handloads except with exception of Vihtavouri N550 matched Factory Velocities and were much more accurate and with less felt recoil than a 300 win mag. The 150 grain ballistic tips I used were within 100 fps of factory advertised velocities but I never got to use Magpro in it which is the powder that Winchester used. Now bear in mine I have had/have many 300 win mags and 7 mags and to the last one they can't get anywhere near their supposed factory velocities in a 24" barrel and I won't hunt with a 26" barrel so how are the long mags superior? I just spent almost 50 bucks getting the No 6 manual(s) from Hornady and there isn't a nickels difference between long and short mag worth writing about. Maybe there is something to this short mag thing after all I mean look at PPC cartridges and how efficient they are. I brought this subject up over a year ago here and was subject to ridicule from a bunch of biased shooters that have never owned a short mag never mind shot one. Yeah some factory loaded velocities may have been stretched slightly in the advertising but after all they are marketing something new. I am not that set in my ways that I will not try something new. By the way each of them predicted an early demise to these evil short mags but boys they are here to stay.
P.S. Enjoy that BAR you have a very nice combination there if I run across one at the Gun Store I guess the wife will get over it in a few weeks...

akbound

Gordon,

Thanks! I know I enjoy these conversations.

I honestly believe if "hunting as we know it today" is to survive it will take a concerted effort from all of us. Hopefully forums like this continue to provide opportunities for us to share information, experiences, and sometimes even "lessons learned". I know in the short period of time I've been on this site I've learned from many of the contributors.

And it is enjoyable and sometimes even "fun" to engage in animated debates about our views. And as you so well stated...if we are to gain anything from these experiences the debaters need to remain openminded.

And I agree with you and "Ruark".....use enough gun.

P.S. I went whitetail hunting today carrying my .350 Remington Magnum, (enough gun.....I think!?!). I know, I know, my .260 Rem......or my .30-06.....or my 8X57.....or my.....(you get the point) could have all got the job done...but my Remington 673 in .350 Rem Magnum is my "newest toy" and begged to go! What's a guy to do?

P.S.S. Yes, it was a great day in the woods. No, I didn't get a shot. But I did see eight doe for certain.....and one or two question marks. Lots of wind, some snow, plenty squirrels, a few grouse....all in all.....a wonderful day!

rob2974

thanks for your imput guys i really appriciate all of your voices.. rob good hunting and be safe