“Weak” cartridges, but “recommended” for large animals.
07-14-2024, 09:42 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,913
Momentum, alternatively, IS conserved. And unlike Kinetic Energy, momentum does not overvalue velocity over mass by squaring the velocity vector - such high KE rounds can "cheat" their way to high KE by traveling very fast, but a bullet cannot lie about its potential when reviewed in terms of momentum, which equally values mass and velocity.
Momentum is not "governed by mass." But rather, Momentum is NOT governed by velocity, as is Kinetic Energy. Momentum values mass and velocity equally - if we double mass at the same velocity, we double momentum. If we double velocity at the same bullet mass, we double momentum. For kinetic energy, if we double mass at the same velocity, we double KE, but if we double velocity of the same bullet weight, we quadruple the KE... Which might make sense in terms of overall Work potential (KE(in) vs. KE(out)), but again, since KE is converted to a lot of different forms, AND because KE is LOST in inelastic collisions, we can't actually use KE to quantify work done in inelastic collisions, we have to come back to momentum, and then calculate the KE(out)....
07-15-2024, 12:07 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: west central wi USA
Posts: 2,256
It pencils out the same. But it's a lot easier and more practical to double the mass than double the velocity.
07-17-2024, 09:36 AM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,913
If I can get a 55grn bullet up to 3400fps in a measly little 5.56, what do you have that gets a 110 up to 3400? It's a hell of a lot more powder to get there - a magnum case, typically a long action, eating more than twice as much powder... If I can get a 200grn bullet up to 2600 in a 30-06, what cartridge case do you need to get at 400grn bullet up to 2600? Even a 416 Rigby doesn't get there, eating around twice as much powder... If I want to double velocity, I can start with a 357mag with a 158 at 1250 and swap to a 308win which pushes a 160 to 2500... I can swap from a 300grn 44mag at 1300 to a 375 H&H which pushes a 300 to 2600...I can pick up a 22LR with a 40grn bullet at 1250 and replace it with a 22 Hornet which gets the 40grn bullet up to 2800, or heck, I can stick it into a 223rem case and get a 40grn bullet up to 3750, TRIPLING the velocity for a fixed bullet weight... So we can do either double mass or double velocity, and neither are actually very sensible comparisons...
But the fact remains - momentum equally values mass and velocity, and is not "governed by mass" any more or less than it is "governed" by velocity. Pretty hard to disregard the simplicity of "Mass x velocity"...
07-19-2024, 07:08 AM
#18
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,932
The thing about this thread is that is that there are several people responding that have experience , years worth of experience using these so called "weak cartridges "and understand that the information on the box is not the end of the story . The op apparently has zero experience with them and is using the data on the boxes to make a decision. This issue is a good example of "the proof is in the Pudding not the interpretation of the recipe.! I will add this, I have taken at least 8 deer with my 45-70, I don't do notches or memorial every kill I make so I could be a number or two off either way , every one of those deer went down like it was pole axed including the one I took last season. I have had very few deer go down like that when I was using my .308 or .270. In addition what I have found, meat damage is substantially less with the 45-70 that the other two calibers.
Last edited by Oldtimr; 07-19-2024 at 01:07 PM.