Custom Precision Rifle Company's--HELP
12-09-2016, 03:10 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
If 600-800 yards is your objective, you could easily get away with a PARTIALLY custom rifle. No need for a "ground up" precision build. I have a Model 70 Win in 30-06 that I can bang a 16" gong at 800 yards with alarming consistency. Only thing I've done to that rifle over the years is put in Timney Trigger and bed the action and float the barrel. I have several "ground up" builds that that old Model 70 will beat the pants off of. Then, like RR, I have a few custom jobs that will split a frogs hair at 600 yards and go looking for the frog! As Jeep put it, it's pretty much up to your wallet and wants, not necessarily "needs". From what you have said, you could more than likely do pretty much what I did to the old Mod 70 with good used rifle thats in good shape. Maybe rebarrel it with a Lija or a Shilen barrel. Or you could find a good action and have a nice custom ground up build. All in what you really just "want". But I will clue you in on a secret. The stock fitting the shooter is just as important as the barrel fitting the action! If a stock doesn't fit you well, then you won't shoot that rifle worth a tinkers damn 99.999% of the time.
As to your "narrowed down" to 6.5 Creed, at distances past 500 yards I would be a bit wary of that particular cartridge. You can only fit in so much bullet length (for weight) before you start to have to compromise space for powder and sacrificing MV. Ya need to have some down range weight for consistent penetration. Or some really serious MV and a high BC bullet to carry that speed and energy downrange. The Creed is fantastic for punching paper at 1000 yards but past 500 I just don't think I could trust the penetration capabilities of that round.
As to your "narrowed down" to 6.5 Creed, at distances past 500 yards I would be a bit wary of that particular cartridge. You can only fit in so much bullet length (for weight) before you start to have to compromise space for powder and sacrificing MV. Ya need to have some down range weight for consistent penetration. Or some really serious MV and a high BC bullet to carry that speed and energy downrange. The Creed is fantastic for punching paper at 1000 yards but past 500 I just don't think I could trust the penetration capabilities of that round.
12-09-2016, 03:33 PM
#12
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 12
Yes, Thanks CalHunter I believe he answered it in my last post!
Ridge Runner or As you said before in the last post 6.5X284 Norma was the round you would go with, what are some of the main reasons? They look like there almost identical to what I have found for information, besides the 284 being little faster and bigger. I guess what caught my attention was the availability of the materials to reload and not breaking the bank.
I am sure though you have lots more information about the Norma rounds than I do!
Thank you Super Hunt54 for the info very informative! Would you happen to know much about the 6.5X284?
Can even through in the 26 Nosler round? (Besides it being expensive)
Ridge Runner or As you said before in the last post 6.5X284 Norma was the round you would go with, what are some of the main reasons? They look like there almost identical to what I have found for information, besides the 284 being little faster and bigger. I guess what caught my attention was the availability of the materials to reload and not breaking the bank.
I am sure though you have lots more information about the Norma rounds than I do!
Thank you Super Hunt54 for the info very informative! Would you happen to know much about the 6.5X284?
Can even through in the 26 Nosler round? (Besides it being expensive)
Last edited by mattz; 12-09-2016 at 03:49 PM.
12-09-2016, 05:20 PM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 5,130
Here is what I have learned so far (if you don't want the "full Monty");
Scope first - Spend (at least) as much on your bases, rings & optic as you do on your rifle.
Get custom target turrets !
http://www.opticsplanet.com/
Production rifle - there are many good ones out there.
Personal preference as to which "features" you like in a hunting rifle.
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/rifl...935_13987.html
Hire a smith to "accurize" the rifle.
Buy a lot of ammo & targets.
Scope first - Spend (at least) as much on your bases, rings & optic as you do on your rifle.
Get custom target turrets !
http://www.opticsplanet.com/
Production rifle - there are many good ones out there.
Personal preference as to which "features" you like in a hunting rifle.
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/rifl...935_13987.html
Hire a smith to "accurize" the rifle.
Buy a lot of ammo & targets.
Last edited by Sheridan; 12-09-2016 at 05:52 PM.
12-09-2016, 05:22 PM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
In a 140gr class bullet the 6.5x284 comparatively to the 6.5 Creedmoore will get you about 200-250fps more at the muzzle. Respectively, with the same bullets such as the 140gr ELD from Hornady with the hottest loads the 284 will have a good bit more energy and, with a good bullet makeup, will have increased penetration on a bone hit.
Now, whitetail aren't armor plated or anything and they really aren't that hard to kill with proper bullet placement. But, with long range performance in the mix, your placement with the smaller 120-140gr bullets would really need to be off the shoulder which takes a pretty good bit of your target area out of the mix. RR takes tons of deer at over 500 yards quite often with smaller bore rifles and will attest to that I'm sure. I personally don't shoot game past 400 (sometimes if I'm feeling mean and I'm on a particularly rowdy hog I'll take it to 500) but that's an ethics limit I set on myself not because of lack of skill but out of respect for the animal and the things that can happen between trigger break and bullet impact. Accurately punching paper and ethically taking animals are 2 very different practices and skill sets and you should learn all you can about BOTH before taking long range shots on live game.
Know your bullets terminal ballistics. If you have a tough bullet that won't blow up at close ranges, a lot of times it won't open at all at long range speeds. You need to know all the numbers going in so you can figure your longest shot that your bullet will reliably open and not just pencil through leaving little internal damage and no blood trail to speak of. That's one of the things a LOT of folks tend to forget about when they take that 700 yard poke at an animal and then they wonder why they didn't find the damn thing.
Now, whitetail aren't armor plated or anything and they really aren't that hard to kill with proper bullet placement. But, with long range performance in the mix, your placement with the smaller 120-140gr bullets would really need to be off the shoulder which takes a pretty good bit of your target area out of the mix. RR takes tons of deer at over 500 yards quite often with smaller bore rifles and will attest to that I'm sure. I personally don't shoot game past 400 (sometimes if I'm feeling mean and I'm on a particularly rowdy hog I'll take it to 500) but that's an ethics limit I set on myself not because of lack of skill but out of respect for the animal and the things that can happen between trigger break and bullet impact. Accurately punching paper and ethically taking animals are 2 very different practices and skill sets and you should learn all you can about BOTH before taking long range shots on live game.
Know your bullets terminal ballistics. If you have a tough bullet that won't blow up at close ranges, a lot of times it won't open at all at long range speeds. You need to know all the numbers going in so you can figure your longest shot that your bullet will reliably open and not just pencil through leaving little internal damage and no blood trail to speak of. That's one of the things a LOT of folks tend to forget about when they take that 700 yard poke at an animal and then they wonder why they didn't find the damn thing.
12-09-2016, 06:09 PM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,914
Matt - between this and your other thread about the Creedmoor, it seems like you're doing a little drinking from a firehose trying to suss out which rifle might be right for you. At this point, it might not be a bad idea to take one of two or three "easier roads:
1) Simply buy a semi-custom like the Christensen you were considering, or from another precision builder.
2) Build up a factory rifle to achieve its greatest potential. This could be done with your existing rifles. In general, if you don't replace the barrel, you can come out ahead and still land with a very accurate rifle by upgrading a factory rifle.
In that aspect, you might be able to get away with simply rebuilding one of your current rifles and end up money ahead. If you have a Tikka, Remington 700, or Savage rifle currently, you already have a rifle with potential to be everything you want it to be.
3) Buy a top level factory model, make a few tweaks, and spend a lot of time trying to shoot better than the rifle. Not many shooters just getting into the game can honesty shoot better than a Remington Sendero or Savage 10/110. Nor between a 6.5 creedmoor and a .308win.
When I spend "custom rifle money," I have to admit I am hard pressed to spend it on a "standard model" from any builder. Stiller Predator, shilen barrel (although Ridgerunner has me on the Lilja bandwagon too), Jewel trigger, Seekins or ptg dbm bottom metal, and a blocked and bedded laminate stock (on the cheap end) or a Mac A5, plus a great smith to spin them together - if you can shoot well enough to tell the difference between this and any other precision rifle, you wouldn't be asking questions, you'd be giving advice!
I too favor the 6.5-284 over the creedmoor, and favor the 284win (shehane) over the 6.5-284. You are going to be practicing a lot as you learn, getting a cartridge which will give you a little extra barrel life is a good plan. Then once you burn out a barrel developing your skills, you can spin on a 6.5-284 barrel if you so desire. Also - do not kid yourself - if you're really going to learn how to shoot long range, you WILL burn out barrels, and you WILL buy multiple rifles to come. I built my first 6.5-284 as a bench gun, but after getting ~1100 out of it when it gave up, I went 284 win and got nearly twice the life out of the barrel. At least at first. I went 284 shehane on the 3rd barrel after reading an article about pushing 180's to 2950, and confirming the truth to it with Boyd Allen. Been happy with the rifle ever since. Always figure I'll go back to 6.5-284 someday in that rifle, but no time soon.
The larger case 6.5-284 eclipses the 6.5 creedmoor, although it does require a long action to capitalize upon the longest, highest BC pills. Nothing wrong with the Creed, but other cartridges will get you farther down range with less drift and drop, so your hit percentage will increase.
1) Simply buy a semi-custom like the Christensen you were considering, or from another precision builder.
2) Build up a factory rifle to achieve its greatest potential. This could be done with your existing rifles. In general, if you don't replace the barrel, you can come out ahead and still land with a very accurate rifle by upgrading a factory rifle.
In that aspect, you might be able to get away with simply rebuilding one of your current rifles and end up money ahead. If you have a Tikka, Remington 700, or Savage rifle currently, you already have a rifle with potential to be everything you want it to be.
3) Buy a top level factory model, make a few tweaks, and spend a lot of time trying to shoot better than the rifle. Not many shooters just getting into the game can honesty shoot better than a Remington Sendero or Savage 10/110. Nor between a 6.5 creedmoor and a .308win.
When I spend "custom rifle money," I have to admit I am hard pressed to spend it on a "standard model" from any builder. Stiller Predator, shilen barrel (although Ridgerunner has me on the Lilja bandwagon too), Jewel trigger, Seekins or ptg dbm bottom metal, and a blocked and bedded laminate stock (on the cheap end) or a Mac A5, plus a great smith to spin them together - if you can shoot well enough to tell the difference between this and any other precision rifle, you wouldn't be asking questions, you'd be giving advice!
I too favor the 6.5-284 over the creedmoor, and favor the 284win (shehane) over the 6.5-284. You are going to be practicing a lot as you learn, getting a cartridge which will give you a little extra barrel life is a good plan. Then once you burn out a barrel developing your skills, you can spin on a 6.5-284 barrel if you so desire. Also - do not kid yourself - if you're really going to learn how to shoot long range, you WILL burn out barrels, and you WILL buy multiple rifles to come. I built my first 6.5-284 as a bench gun, but after getting ~1100 out of it when it gave up, I went 284 win and got nearly twice the life out of the barrel. At least at first. I went 284 shehane on the 3rd barrel after reading an article about pushing 180's to 2950, and confirming the truth to it with Boyd Allen. Been happy with the rifle ever since. Always figure I'll go back to 6.5-284 someday in that rifle, but no time soon.
The larger case 6.5-284 eclipses the 6.5 creedmoor, although it does require a long action to capitalize upon the longest, highest BC pills. Nothing wrong with the Creed, but other cartridges will get you farther down range with less drift and drop, so your hit percentage will increase.
12-09-2016, 07:39 PM
#18
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 12
Sorry just asking questions. I know i'm not super experienced like most of you, just want to get to that point someday. What not better to do then ask people that have been through the process.
Thanks, for all your help really appreciate it.
Thanks, for all your help really appreciate it.
