Is it a shotgun or a rifle?
11-17-2013, 09:30 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 269
Is it a shotgun or a rifle?
So I'm reading a 640+ page book called "The American Rifle" and this question popped into my head for some reason...
Can someone explain to me what is the legal and technical difference between a rifle and a shotgun as could be used in a court of law?
Lets put this into a story problem for some context..
A DNR officer approaches you in your deer hunting blind and says you're hunting with a rifle in a shotgun only area.. You say, "But sir, this is a remington 870 shotgun".. and he says "No, a shot gun fires a bunch of pellets.. not a bullet.. Rifles fire bullets.. shotguns fire groups of round balls.. Come with me cupcake! You're under arrest."
Now, how do you explain to a judge or a jury that your weapon, a Remington 870 slug gun, which has a rifled barrel and loaded with a slug that is propelled by a sequence of events where a firing pin ignites a primer in the center of the shell that then ignites the main propellent, is in fact a shotgun and not a rifle?
Sounds like a rifle to me...
Can someone explain to me what is the legal and technical difference between a rifle and a shotgun as could be used in a court of law?
Lets put this into a story problem for some context..
A DNR officer approaches you in your deer hunting blind and says you're hunting with a rifle in a shotgun only area.. You say, "But sir, this is a remington 870 shotgun".. and he says "No, a shot gun fires a bunch of pellets.. not a bullet.. Rifles fire bullets.. shotguns fire groups of round balls.. Come with me cupcake! You're under arrest."
Now, how do you explain to a judge or a jury that your weapon, a Remington 870 slug gun, which has a rifled barrel and loaded with a slug that is propelled by a sequence of events where a firing pin ignites a primer in the center of the shell that then ignites the main propellent, is in fact a shotgun and not a rifle?
Sounds like a rifle to me...
11-18-2013, 12:10 AM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,230
Don't know about where you're hunting at, but in the places I hunt, the regulations are pretty clear about what you can use. Areas that are buckshot only, say so. Areas you can use slugs in, say so. Areas that you can use both in, say so. Not a lot of grey area in the regs.
If a hunter doesn't check the regs to see what is and isn't legal then he/she deserves a ticket.
If a hunter doesn't check the regs to see what is and isn't legal then he/she deserves a ticket.
11-18-2013, 05:17 AM
#4
Typical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Buffalo, WY
Posts: 992
Break out the owners manual provided with the weapon by the manufacturer.
The specifications will clearly identify it as a Remington Model 870 12 Gauge Shotgun.
Doubt you'd find a game warden who would try to call an 870 a rifle in any case.
The specifications will clearly identify it as a Remington Model 870 12 Gauge Shotgun.
Doubt you'd find a game warden who would try to call an 870 a rifle in any case.
11-18-2013, 05:56 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Onslow County, NC
Posts: 1,856
Regs should be clear enough haven't seen any state yet misidentify firearms in regards to hunting.
Also shotguns use gauges with the exception of the 410. Rifles shoot calibers. Even though the slug is one solid piece it is still a gauge.
Also shotguns use gauges with the exception of the 410. Rifles shoot calibers. Even though the slug is one solid piece it is still a gauge.
11-18-2013, 07:46 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,915
No debate, no confusion. The rules exist....
Someone had this question a long time before you did, so the legal definitions already exist...
Gun Control Act Definitions
Shotgun
18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(5) and 27 CFR § 478.11
The term “Shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
ATF definition of Shotgun
Rifle
26 U.S.C., § 5485(a)
For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the following definitions are used to define and verify the different types of firearms:
§ 5845(c) — The term “Rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.
ATF definition of Rifle
Then beyond that, to alter a shotgun or rifle far enough to qualify it as the other (which actually usually ends up as an AOW, not a "rifle" or a "shotgun", or a "weapon made from a shotgun" or "wmfr") takes more than just replacing a barrel.
For example, putting a rifled barrel on an 870, does not constitute a rifle, because by definition, a shotgun is made to fire a number of shot OR a single projectile. With a rifled barrel, it is still capable of this.
Alternatively, firing birdshot loads out of a rifle, without altering the rifle, has not changed the rifle design, and therefore has not converted it to a shotgun. By it's design and function, the rifle still is meant to fire ONE projectile through its rifled bore, and to wit, the nature of the projectile, being comprised of multiple pellets, doesn't matter in the designation of the RIFLE.
Where things get really hairy are handguns. For example, the Taurus Judge MUST forever be classified as a .45 long colt handgun, even though it is designed to and capable of cross chambering .410 shotshells. They would never be able to release a .410 only version, as a 'shotgun handgun' constitutes an AOW.
Gun Control Act Definitions
Shotgun
18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(5) and 27 CFR § 478.11
The term “Shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
ATF definition of Shotgun
Rifle
26 U.S.C., § 5485(a)
For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the following definitions are used to define and verify the different types of firearms:
§ 5845(c) — The term “Rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.
ATF definition of Rifle
Then beyond that, to alter a shotgun or rifle far enough to qualify it as the other (which actually usually ends up as an AOW, not a "rifle" or a "shotgun", or a "weapon made from a shotgun" or "wmfr") takes more than just replacing a barrel.
For example, putting a rifled barrel on an 870, does not constitute a rifle, because by definition, a shotgun is made to fire a number of shot OR a single projectile. With a rifled barrel, it is still capable of this.
Alternatively, firing birdshot loads out of a rifle, without altering the rifle, has not changed the rifle design, and therefore has not converted it to a shotgun. By it's design and function, the rifle still is meant to fire ONE projectile through its rifled bore, and to wit, the nature of the projectile, being comprised of multiple pellets, doesn't matter in the designation of the RIFLE.
Where things get really hairy are handguns. For example, the Taurus Judge MUST forever be classified as a .45 long colt handgun, even though it is designed to and capable of cross chambering .410 shotshells. They would never be able to release a .410 only version, as a 'shotgun handgun' constitutes an AOW.
11-18-2013, 07:49 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,915
A DNR officer approaches you in your deer hunting blind and says you're hunting with a rifle in a shotgun only area.. You say, "But sir, this is a remington 870 shotgun".. and he says "No, a shot gun fires a bunch of pellets.. not a bullet.. Rifles fire bullets.. shotguns fire groups of round balls.. Come with me cupcake! You're under arrest."
Now, how do you explain to a judge or a jury that your weapon, a Remington 870 slug gun, which has a rifled barrel and loaded with a slug that is propelled by a sequence of events where a firing pin ignites a primer in the center of the shell that then ignites the main propellent, is in fact a shotgun and not a rifle?
Sounds like a rifle to me...
Now, how do you explain to a judge or a jury that your weapon, a Remington 870 slug gun, which has a rifled barrel and loaded with a slug that is propelled by a sequence of events where a firing pin ignites a primer in the center of the shell that then ignites the main propellent, is in fact a shotgun and not a rifle?
Sounds like a rifle to me...
Slug hunting isn't new enough that nobody thought of this already.
